Now she's going to have to come up with a reason to ignore your points that doesn't involve the amount of time you've spent watching Horne. Spoilsport.

Such a predictable comment from you that



Not as comical as you asking if I know the difference between objective & subjective



You are doing what you always do, grasping onto an argument in your case top 4 stats and feeding scraps from what others put which in fairness is all a person can do when they do not even attend the games.
I have no problem with the constructive discussions that took place with Carl Specker & East Hull, however even I comprehend that is only the opinion of a couple of supporters who attend the KC, this thread is hardly overrun with fans posting claiming he is good is it now, most actually realise he has been average by his own standards of 2006 but hope the situation improves next season.

now now Marfa, remember, a moderator badge makes you right, regardless of evidence.

Horne is average, that is a simple fact of things, Hull FC are average, that is a fact of things, and we are coached by a simpleton.

I makes you wonder what the hell Agar would have done with a player like Cooke, that long pass out would have really confused our present coach

Horne isn't average. Don't get me wrong he is no world beater either. There are other stand offs I would rather have. He is a good player capable of moments of brilliance so for me that makes him more thanaverage

and that is fair enough Paul, it's your opinion and you are entitled to it, as are people who disagree.

"Judgement" of a player is down to comparison, compared to the best stand off's playing (and who have previously played) the game he is "average", compared to his current peers he is good, in my view the problem is that he isn't "good enough" for a top 4 side.

If we hadn't given him a contract do you (or anyone else) honestly, believe Wigan, Warrington, Saints, L**ds, Huddersfield or Catalans would have come in for him, I don't.

Interesting you should mention that. Looking back, when Agar had his caretaker spell in charge between Kear and Sharp, he pretty much let Cooke run the show and we looked very good.

It appears that Agar seems to rely far too much on one player to provide all the attacking know-how and direction, rather than put systems in place himself that players can fit into more easily and would help those coming in to cover injury to be more effective. It's essentially delegating part of his responsibility to an experienced player, which IMO is unacceptable, and is why we have struggled because the players he's left it to have been unable to string enough games together and we've had to make do with players who don't have the same abilities (or have been Chris Thorman).

explains signing Long(term sick)

Horne in my opinion should be used from now and onwards as a utility player. He has never shone at 6 and will never be any better in that position. 2012 season needs to be a new half back pairing with the closed season used as intensive training for both new halfbacks. We need new blood in both positions therefore I hope that Ellis and Seymour are used in those positions for next season. Horne can be utility and when injury occurs to the regular halfback(s) one of the youngsters is brought in to cover.

I do not think he had a choice when caretaker, Cooks ability/impact spoke for itself on the pitch and his role helped produce the results.
I agree on Agar delegating roles and responsibilities to certain players and I feel this has had a massive detrimental effect on our offence. Agar favours a safe game, hence his love of playing a forward in a a pivotal position (Fitz 13). Westy has been an inspiration to us as he loves the off the cuff stuff and we certainly see results from his style of offence. The scary thing is most of our success recently appears to come from off the cuff and not set plays...Agar really is useless!!

Exactly. Sharp tried similar with Dykes.

We simply can't afford to be so reliant on having our first choice playmaker if we want to be a succesful side. Hopefully with Ellis coming in as well as Seymour, Westerman getting more and more involved (fingers crossed from loose forward permanently next season), and the change of coach we are all praying for, we will move away from that.

There would have been plenty of interest, from who I honestly don't know.

The thing is we are not a top 4 side yet. Maybe playing with Seymour, Heremaia and McKinnon might really bring the best from him. If not then we can bring in Ellis and drop him. Plus if we get a new coach it might also bring the best from him like Brown has done with Robinson and Brough.

That's why unlike the system at Saints as regardless of the personnel they play the same way. Even when the youngsters are brought in everyone knows their role and the are still effective and competitive.

The stats were brought in because they're an objective way of comparing players. I didn't even post the first ones on this thread. You clearly prefer your subjective opinion. That's fine, but don't try pretending that it's anything else but subjective.

I can tell when someone is losing the argument on here when they have to trot out the line about attending games. You seem to be happy enough to make judgements on other players that you'll only have seen once or twice more than me this season though.



TBH it just makes you look pompous.

Ah bless - does it still hurt?

Exactly.

Exactly. It's beyond belief that the culture at Hull seems to be that established professional rugby league players apparently need a teammate alongside them constantly telling them where and when to run. It's like we have 16 Forrest Gumps and one puppetmaster responsible for all of them.

Can't be bothered to read the full thread only read the last couple of pages but imo we are a worse team without Horne than with. We miss him when he's not on the field. He's still the only real support player we have at the club.

As for the predictable drop off pass it's a coaches directive for me if you have watched the last few games you will have seen the worse culprit by far for it has been Houghton, not Horne and like a previous poster as already said Obst does it and so does Washbrook and even Westerman last week against Catalans.

I would say that post is unbelievable...but it is not from you. I can base my opinion obectively as the stats only tell a bit of the story, they do not include falling off tackles, speed etc, so I can base my opinion objectively on what I actually see every week!
You summed yourself up well in that post, it is not as you claim argument which has taken place it is a debate about [uopinions[/u.

does what hurt, that you're self righteous and think your opinion is more important than anyone else's, no, not particularly, I just find you a bit tiresome at times, but hey ho, whatever makes you feel important I guess.

He is starting to resemble expro/icreamman with his childish random posts!.....very disturbing!

Pathetic....Tell you what does hurt,you having your opinion and thats it,anyone questions you and its my opinion is right and everyone else is wrong.Your the worst mod on here by a long way and you was pretty much a bit of a to$$er before you became one but your a full blown one now....You are the Agar of the Mods.

Well I go every week and don't see him constantly dropping off tackles or lacking in speed. I do see him kicking poorly and using that drop off pass but he is not a kicker and the pass is down coaches orders.

Hides behind his badge and in his world...he is right...Kosh is the new Agar.

100% agree with you on this one.

Kosh is well out of order!

If there's anyone on here Kosh should have reseved the word 'pompous' for, it's most definitely YOU!