Quote ="hullbg"If you took the time to read previous posts you would see i have mentioned those things and I am not in the Horne is great or the Horne is crap camp. I was making a point that there is nobody who is right or wrong in this argument not until next season when we see how Horne performs alongside a good organisational scrum half as well as another kicker on the field. So he was poor last season, yet his stats last season are comparable to this seasons superleague.co.uk/statistics_pla ... eason=2011'" He was poor at the start of the season when I had my concerns and improved later on IIRC. Hence his stats for the whole season ended up being decent.

Quote ="hullbg"If you took the time to read previous posts you would see i have mentioned those things and I am not in the Horne is great or the Horne is crap camp. I was making a point that there is nobody who is right or wrong in this argument not until next season when we see how Horne performs alongside a good organisational scrum half as well as another kicker on the field. So he was poor last season, yet his stats last season are comparable to this seasons superleague.co.uk/statistics_pla ... eason=2011'" He was poor at the start of the season when I had my concerns and improved later on IIRC. Hence his stats for the whole season ended up being decent.

You just posted about moving goalposts then you post that





Make your mind up at the beginning of this season you feared he was finished yet you now claim he ended up last season with decent stats

No need to get personal.



You're making all sorts of assumptions there. There is absolutely no guarantee that Chase would perform any better in our side right now than he does for Cas. Not sure why you keep mentioning him TBH, what with him playing in a side that will win nothing and isn't even in the top 4.

Nope. Read my posts again.

No goalposts move, Cas do not have the forwards, if you posted the full post instead of lifting little bits to suit your point you would see I made it clear, imagine how good he would be with a set of forwards like ours

watching the game tonight, ive only noticed one long kick from both team NOT go to the oppositions full back, useless the lot of them eh?

The same way you keep mentioning Horney is as good as any top 4 ,Your reference to the top 4 is comical, you are basing your argument not on watching Horney every week for the last 2/3 years but by some stats posted on here which do not even include defence (an area of weakness for Horney), so they only give a glimpse of what is happening.
Very few people who go every week would consider Horney is in the top 4 numbers 6s in this country any more...and the ones who do I fear are basing this on sentimentality and not performance!

www.cartoonstock.com/newscartoons/carto ... rn365l.jpg

www.cartoonstock.com/newscartoons/carto ... rn365l.jpg

Very true, some people are.

so what does everyone think about Horney,is he any good

Chase is a luxury and treated as such by Matterson. Other players get frustrated but the coach tells them not to pay out of dummy half etc, "just give it it Rangi".

He would not be afforded that luxury at a top club.

It is for me she ignores me now

Going by those stats we have a better 6 than Wigan. Not too shabby at all considering the team he's been playing in..

Whilst I'm more of a similar opinion to you on Horne, I really don't think it's sound ground to use selection by McBanana as evidence of a player's quality, be it just for an objective comparison or not.

EDIT, just realised Smith also picked him at 6, as you were.

It stands to reason his stats are not too shaby he is being asked by Agar to do more but the end result is poor!...also there are no defensive stats an area which he is poor.
His stats are also similar to last seasons yet most thought he was poor last season yet seem to believe he has improved this year ?

So if he had an organising 7 how do you reckon those stats would read then better than Wigans and matching all the top 4s?

You could do with reading posts more carefully before replying. I haven't said that Horne is as good as any in the top 4 at all. I certainly haven't said that he's in the top 4 stand offs in the country. I've said that his [istats[/i are as good as Brown's, who is undeniably a stand off in a top 4 side. And you want to compare defences? Here ya go...

Horne
Tackles: 286
Marker Tackles: 35
Missed Tackles: 40
Errors: 30
Penalies: 4

Chase
Tackles: 207
Marker Tackles: 17
Missed Tackles: 57
Errors: 30
Penalties: 10

So Chase makes many fewer tackles, misses more of them, makes the same number of errors, and gives away more than twice as many penalties.

I can live with Chase's defence as he offers so much more to make up for it
Try your man Brown with the defensive stats

Or the full backs and wingers have excellent positioning, but that rearly gets a mention.

Attack makes up for it? Christ, you couldn't make it up. Tell a decent coach that.

Not really difficult when you drop 3 back though, is it?

Well it is for a kicker.

You joking ?...defence is not our issue very rarely has been with the likes of Fitz & Orgre...offence has been an issue for us though, so on that basis yes a player like Chase would likely be accommodated and welcomed!
Horney offers neither defence or offence !

Don't understand your reasoning that his stats look better because he's being asked to do more, evidently he has been capable of what he has been asked to do and is doing it relatively succesfully.

[url=http://www.superleague.co.uk/statistics_player?hs1=2011&hp1=2784&hs2=2011&hp2=206&stat=tries&season=2011Defensive stats, not too bad.[/url

Personally I don't like to get too bogged down in stats, I commented because I found those posted interesting. Bottom line is whether or not he performs in such a way that makes the team work better, and I'd still like to see him with a regular, good quality organising halfback partner to see if he still has what it takes for that. It's difficult to measure the true capabilities of many of our players thanks to the complete numpty who doesn't bother playing to any of their strengths. Berrigan is a prime example.

exactly! the point i made earlier about horne (snd westerman) when we played catalan, the dragons wingers also dropped back to support greenshields making the kicks easier to return, most teams do this but most are to blind to see

Do you honestly think a coach of a top team would accept defence like that from Chase?

Oh, and saying Horne offers neither is silly, and just smacks of sensationalist posting or a lack of knowledge of the game. You claim you have the latter so...