And what would you say was the minimum amount of money someone has to spend before you magnanimously grant them the right to have an opinion?

Deary me.

Not any more
There's far more competition for people's money now.
The clubs in the entertainment industry and are charging top dollar to attend games
People will certainly be picking and choosing even more next season.

Then it's simple don't go, why stress yourself out moaning & complaining till your blue in the face, I'm not just on about you but any person that's not happy & doesn't enjoy the game/club no more, we never had these boards to post on 20 years plus ago, so what did we do then? We got on with it & turned up, AP is doing the best he can, we could have a complete new team/coaching staff there's nothing to say it would 100% change.

I agree there's a game-wide problem. I actually think the sport is dying in this country. I think we could have held onto crowds better than most if our fan base wasn't so disillusioned, though.

It's the case of if you do something that much it becomes stale & bores you, we do massively over scrutinise every move the club or players or staff do, it's like out of people moan/knock you start to believe it yourself.

I used to go to the games every week (180 mile round trip) until a year or so ago, then we started picking and choosing games...and this year I've mainly stuck to Sky and been to about 5 games I think...for me the excitement has completely gone. I used to be excited all week about the upcoming game and used to be proud to talk about supporting Hull...now I can't seem to get excited if we win and I'm not too fussed if we lose...apart from the embarrassment in front of my friends if it's a sky game!

For me, the ambition has gone from both the fans and the club. Recruitment wise, we seem to go for either average unknowns e.g Michaels, Talanoa, Rankin, Tumivave (could turn out to be good, but I'll admit I dont know anything of him), Byrne, Cusack, Maiava etc etc or marquee players / ageing players that are available at the right time..e.g Pryce, Long, Berrigan, Sing and Ellis to an extent. We seem to sign players based on the fact that they're available and trying to make them fit in the team, rather than planning a signing out. Compare our recruitment to Leeds, Wigan and Saints and think how few signings they make, but how well planned they are, e.g Cuthbertson, Galloway...as they know they're going to lose Peacock and Leuluai at the end of the season and so plan accordingly. We sign Tumivave and people don't know whether he will be a stand-off, winger or centre...and I'm not sure the club 100% do either! Once we sign these players, Hull fans being the proud bunch they are will defend each of the signings and say that they add something to the team, if half of our squad played for any other team....we wouldn't rate them as highly as we do.

I struggle to motivate myself to go to games, and when I do I've found them boring sadly...gone are the exciting days from 2003 - 2007 where we had the likes of Barnett, Swain, Best, Kearney, Blacklock etc, even Jamie Thackray, Carvell, Dowes and King used to really run at the line with power and take large run-ups, compare that now to a lot of our players who, whilst they graft and tackle...have lost the excitement factor, which is reflected in the declining attendances and cheering from the crowds.

Rugby league isn't cheap anymore, £23 to watch the game, along with £20 petrol, food and drinks, adds up to around £60 a time...which as people have said is a lot of money each week to go and be bored.

I would like to have the same level of interest as I did a few years ago, but with the pattern of two or three wins followed by two or three losses, endless spin from the club and constantly focusing on "next year" rather than focusing on now, I am finding it difficult to maintain my interest in Hull FC, and can't see it changing anytime soon. Feel free to call me not a true fan but they're just my feelings of the current situation!

Sorry, I've read that 3 times and I'm still not sure what you're saying & getting at.

Just needs re marketing from our clubs perspective to keep the ready to walk away fans to stay, our fans over scrutinise every thing that goes on, even the good things the club are trying to do, & if people call something constantly well others start to jump onboard.

You think people are walking away because the club is not marketed in the right way and other fans over-scrutinise and criticise, is that it?

If so, then I'm afraid I think you're way off. I think you'd be better off thinking about why people feel the need to call things, it's not like they're doing so unjustly and people are jumping on board blindly. There's been a growing unrest that has been fed for several years by poor results, poor performances, false promises of change, and a feeling of being taken for granted by those in charge.

As for the good things about the club, what is currently the single best thing about Hull FC at the moment, the one thing that is showing some degree of success? The 19s side from an academy that is now going to be restructured to be cheaper. The same 19s side that Pearson has been banging on about since it was 15-year-olds playing 16s at the start of his tenure. This 'special crop' as he put it, that was to be nurtured and show the way the future of the club lay, will now be the last Hull FC under 19s side, because it's too expensive and he appears to have shifted his ideology from being about youth to preferring to bring in a big name or 2 from the NRL.

Because people care. We bitch and moan because we care about our club.

Interesting theory about the product on the pitch not being 'entertaining'. I'm pretty sure Rovers fans have been royally entertained this year, but look where it's got them?
The club rode on the crest of a wave from moving in to the new stadium, to a relatively successful period from 2003-2007. That dwindled under Agar and the following years have seen a steady flow away from the club of the bandwaggoners (for want of a better word). I think it's finally levelling out and we'll struggle to get those people back until we have another period of doing well!

Utter, utter tripe

, you don't even seem to get it do you!
People moan, stress and complain because they DO care, they care about a club that has probably being in their blood since a kid and have seen how pitiful we've become.
Seriously, did you never go to the pub after the game or listen to fans on the terraces or your dad/mum/aunt/uncle at home after a defeat or even the away coach on the way back...guess what, they/we all complained and whinged and stressed because we were playing carp/losing and it gets worse when you're losing more than we win.

And guess what, more people turn up now during this lean spell than did back in the lean years of the 60s and 70s and the 90s oh and that's in a souless stadium as some people keep banging on about and with many more things and with easier access to other social activities that you can spend your money on.

Frankly given our underachievement compared to where we'd like to be the fans have gone more than above and beyond, we've being extremely loyal given how little we've won/being competing at the top end which is what, maybe 3 seasons if you include the year we won the CC.

AP might be doing the best [ihe[/i can but it really is massively short of what is required, people think he's this manna from heaven because he's put some wedge in, well he isn't. He's shown himself to be a know nowt time and time and time again and a gobe too, he's made so many critical/catastrophic errors that have cost us so badly and shot himself in the foot and yet he blames everyone except himself, a bit like the turnip in charge of the players.

Every penny he has lost is down to him (That includes EBT, pay-offs etc), not the fans, not the players, not even the 'coach'. The buck stops at him and fans are fed up of the way he has gone about things from so many differing angles, failed to control certain aspects of the club, failed to accquire expertise from top to bottom or when we had someone in didn't support them properly and didn't show due diligence
We could bring in a completely new coaching setup (we won't) and that would work better than now but would only work if the current owner wasn't the owner. We need an owner with a proven understanding of not just business (Pearson doesn't IMHO as shown by his constant errors) but also someone that can understand & embrace a community based business as well as nous to employ experts, to leave no stones unturned, even simple things like employing a proven CEO's and actual directors with real world experience not the YTS lot we've had for too long.
But that won't happen, and as Wilf says and something I've being saying for ages is Pearson himself is the problem, he is the root cause of why we are where we are.

Oh I'll go to the next game I'm up visiting the folks, I'll always go, however, I don't go to as many games as I used to, it's not the money, it's the awful feeling it gives you (losing/playing shat) for days sometimes weeks after an utterly dreadful performance/defeat. That's how it's been for a while anticipating the worst, rarely thinking we'll turn up with a great performance rather than upbeat, that's me personally but I hear it on the terraces too.

As others it's in my blood and watching that kind of rubbish hurts, it's the complete opposite end of the scale emotion wise, I'm sure many would agree.
Why would you want to waste an afternoon/evening and 'waste' the cash (not just for those that it's a struggle which I appreciate it can be) but also to have that horrible feeling afterwards...

Thank you for starting what is an excellent thread containing a lot of heartfelt and well written posts.

My own assessment of the situation is that AP enjoyed what was a modicum of success in his first spell at city (though it could be argued that it was through trial and error). The cash made from that was largely Peter Wilkinson's, and AP saw Hull FC as a chance to repeat the trick but with himself as the sole beneficiary.

Unfortunately for him he didn't do enough due diligence into what was needed to succeed in RL, and as a consequence overpaid for the club and had been playing catch-up ever since.

As you allude to he's wasted hundreds of thousands on big names and other such luxuries, when he would have been better spending it on solid foundations the club could have been built on for the next 10 years.

Always good at talking, he's wasted a long honeymoon period by consistently over promising and under delivering and now faces the fact that all his spending has brought little if any improvement from when he bought the club.

I agree totally that we will now be chasing the crowds down, lower investment=poorer performances=lower crowds=lower investment etc etc.

I think the watershed moment for you was the Leeds Cup game wasn't it? I recall you said it was "sobering stuff".

Where do we go from here, who knows. I disagree with the school of thought that says we need a rich benefactor though. What we need is someone to take on the club who knows the game and has contacts that can deliver value for money. A coach who can take some rough diamonds and make them into a glittering necklace.

Anyone know somebody who fits the bill?

This ^^

Rugby league is entertainment at the end of he day and our club has become stale. The same old annual merry go round of average signings, promises in the media and inconsistent performances. I've said all I want to say about Radford these last 18 months.

It also doesn't help the club that our home form has been so poor and host in many of the big games (Derby at Easter, Leeds in the cup, Wigan last week) the team doesn't turn up, which means the less regular fans who turn out for these games (or watch them on TV) aren't persuaded to turn up more regularly.

After 20 years as a passholder I'm pretty much done with the club, planning on picking and choosing my games next year dependant on the teams form. There's only so long you can keep coughing up for underachieving rubbish. The other problem the club has is the size of the ground and the drop in pass holders means you can easily get a decent seat by paying on the day, even a few years ago you'd have got nowhere near an East stand seat on the halfway line, now it's sp.

The only way to improve pass sales next year is to appoint a proven, respected head coach. It's not rocket science!

I'll tell you why we moan, its because we actually care and love our club. Pearson, Radford, Ellis, Pryce I could go on, will be long gone soon. In the same way Boxall, Hancock, Bunting, Lloyd Leuluai etc have long gone. But who have stayed loyal thorugh some pretty dross times. Us the fans. Us the fans who put our hard earned cash into the coffers of the club. Us the fans who have family diaries dictated by a fixture list so that we can follow the club. Us the fans who love the club and are completely dedicated to it. When its clearly not going well and nobody at the club can see it and when we are told that unless we turn up at Widnes on a Thursday night we can't have a say, thats when we get the right royal ar54.

I don't know how long you have supported the club and frankly I don't really care. But for some of us it aint so easy to say sod it I'm off without so much as a word after all this time supporting the club.

If AP and LR are doing the best they can and all we are doing is standing still at best then maybe they need to man up and either get some outside help or ship out. (Look to Castleford for a club in a far worse situation than us and yet they may well make the top 4. what do they do so differently to the "big" club that is Hull FC?) What they are doing now does not appear to be working. AP went on about our u16s when he took over. The next great crop of youngsters apparently. Yet we seem more intent on shipping some of them out and getting overseas players in. We are merging with the enemy because of cost cutting pure and simple. An exercise which will see further cuts as the funding stream from the fans upset with that will dry up. Wilf being a classic example. a man who regularly goes to watch the academy and goes the extra mile putting his hand in his pocket. That will stop from him and many others.

These are a few of many things that frankly p155 off too many fans now. And if they want to express their opinion on that then so be it. The fans that don't turn up now HAVE to be listened to. The reasons why the don't turn up HAVE to be listened to. If they don't get listened to then many more will drift away and we will be back to the championship and days in Batley, Oxford, London, Gateshead.

I have been supporting Fc since 1958 over them years we have had some highs and some downright lows that goes for every RL fan. I agree with Wilf that I go to games home and away with no idea how we will perform the Wakey game was a prime example,should have gone there thinking yes a win is certain but no on the way down thinking we could lose here ..and we all know what happened ,After their first try I though here we go and sadly we folded.I honestly dont think a change in coach or owner will make any difference but if it did then I would be the first to say lets do it,however i think the criticism aimed at Pearson is bang out of order.Allam knew nothing about football and he relied on others knowledge ,Pearson put the same trust in others and it cost him dearly with some pretty awful contracts and signings and whatever you think that has caused us real damage. I want to see a better club but I will never walk away its in my blood ,am i frustrated and down ..to right I am but i live in hope .

An interesting thread..

I feel that the majority of FC fans/supporters and followers have lost confidence with the Head Coach, and Pearson's decision making.

Pearson feels, the signings of a high profile player, will be a major season ticket seller, but in my opinion the acquisition of a Head Coach of the stature of a Powell or even Brian Smith, would galvanize the club further., it would give fans confidence again.

As it stands, IF Pearson continues with the current coaching setup, pass sales will dwindle, but IF ,a big IF.. he gambled on a proven Head Coach, people may return ,if the performances were consistent.

People just need to look at Wakey and the change in expectation since BS arrived. I would hazard a guess that their fans are more confident of their future than we are of ours. There needs to be change and it needs to happen quickly or the fans who are not turning up now will never turn up again.

Totally agree...

Pearson doesnt understand, nor realise, the importance of a Head Coach.

It would be interesting to hear the fans opinions, regarding..

Who would improve Hull FC as a club more..?

A high profile player, or a proven Head Coach ????

Problem is with Adam Pearson, he doesnt listen to fans advice, many have emailed him, and I recall there was a FC fans group, who tried to offer advice, but fell on deaf ears..

I am not wanting to go over ground already covered but as a 3rd generation hull fan who now takes his own children and used to have a great uncle who represented our club with great distinction I believe that I and others like me do have a right to voice our opinions and no less a right simply because I no longer buy a pass.
This season for the first time in years I have become a pay as you go customer and not a very occasional one at that. Both my children now refuse to accompany me to games when I go as they claim it is now boring and who am I to disagree as I am now equally disillusioned.
I firmly believe the current failings of this club are due to Pearson and Radford and no blame can be apportioned to any fan regardless.
Pearson through dialogue with him and through the media in my opinion is a very arrogant and stubborn man who should look at himself first and foremost and ask "what can I do differently to change the club?" Instead of laying the blame at those non attending fans for our financial demise, those very same fans the club need yet he chooses to ignore.
And as for Radford a man clearly out if his depth at this level of coaching a man ultimately responsible for taking the level of performances below what I thought possible in the fact he makes Agar look good, is also responsible for driving away fans in their droves. He also alienates players and fans alike with his ill thought out interviews which does not help our cause.
It has got so bad for me that I now resent a man I do not know simply because of how bad we are and how he has now made me feel as a supporter.
So now no longer will I blindly give cash to this club to an owner who no longer deserves it and for a coach to be employed who's ability I do not respect or value.
For me it is no longer about big name signings as they won't win me over as they'll become expensive parts in a badly run machine but a proven coach or one with pedigree and potential would.

Their highest average home SL attendance in 4 years, when the game in general is seeing a decline? And this despite their lowest points return, lowest league finish, lowest number of wins, and lowest number of points scored since their first season back. A comparative success, really, and if anything only adds to the argument that people will still go if they are being entertained.

How is it? He's made mistakes, simple as that. As long as it's not personal or nasty, criticism of that is entirely fair.

If you buy a business in a field you know nothing about, listen to the wrong people and make bad decisions, that's your fault. End of story. It doesn't matter how well intentioned you were/are, the ultimate responsibility for how the business performs is yours and yours alone. What we've effectively had here is not unlike Mr & Mrs Smith the lifelong electrician and sales rep who have decided to fulfil their dream and move to Majorca to open a restaurant having never cooked outside of their own kitchen, never working in the trade or tourism and being unable to speak Spanish between them. Gordon Ramsay would be knocking on the door to swear at and ridicule them.

Nail on the head. Whilst better players will obviously make some improvement, I think the big concern is that no matter who it is it won't make enough difference until the deeper problems are addressed.