It’s not an over reaction, merely a statement that everyone has a reason to feel as they do, I stated mine. Mrs. B did belittle Chris71 for stating he was at his lowest for 40 years. Disagreement doesn’t include belittlement. Funny you replied and not Coffee Woman.

It's not a so-called top 4. Both in terms of finances and SL achievements (GF appearances and wins) they are the top 4. My feeling is not one of the lowest in decades, more that we are roughly where I expected to be in the league, so fairly ambivalent. But I do feel a little optimism that our pack, cited by many including me as a reason we wouldn't challenge this year, will be better next.

All true and I seem to remember you telling a former CEO that in a salary capped sport that the coach is the differentiator but currently were not differentiated from our peers

ComeOnYouUll belittled Chris71 initially, funnily enough Barista followed up with the same sentiments not long after.

Strange isn't it

Correct. We're in the pack with our financial peers.

Perhaps we both thought straightaway of the club being hours from.extinction? It's possible.

Different times, different feelings. At that time in the club’s history, I was very much upbeat, knowing that we would survive. Unlike now when all I can see is dross and nothing changing. I can’t see anything other than that with the incumbent coach. From any financial aspect, I see us up there with best but you just carry on telling us how it is and not deal with what’s posted.

So Radford not a good coach then? Average at best? Are salford one of our financial peers?

Nobody on here gets more abuse than Mrs Barista. I note that you resort to name calling whilst complaining about people being belittled.

I wasn't upbeat when we were hours from extinction - the Gateshead news came completely out of the blue for me. You see us up there with the best financially - I don't agree based on published accounts, relative owner wealth etc. i don't think anyone has yet examined the fact that in terms of dominance in the SL era there are 4 top clubs (Bradford now not being in the top tier), and these 4 clubs are the only ones that need to file full accounts due to their size (turnover, assets, employees). We are not in this group.

He's done well to win back to back Challenge Cups, certainly. Salford aren't a peer, no. We are underperforming vs them, but overperforming vs Leeds.

I used “Coffee Woman” because I’d already referred to her as “Mrs B” in the post and didn’t want to use the same name in context. Your defence of MRS. BARISTA is becoming boring and a bit of a tell tale sign. No name calling by me intended.

I'm pretty sure its Leeds underperforming against the rest of sl rather than anything were doing

Very true. It's almost like I'm not permitted to feel OK with where we are, relative to other times at the club and in the context of relative resources at others. That's alright. I'm choosing to have a much better time of it than everyone else.

Jesus H Christ!! Replying to your own post is a bit sublime

Sorry mate but I was in Purple Doors until 6am this morning before departing in a cab,
It made me feel a little more cheery after a disappointing loss.

How are we over performing v Leeds exactly? They’ve been in a relaxation fight all season long and there’s a reason for that because they’ve been worse than us for a few reasons.
So it more a case of Leeds underperforming than us over performing.

I

Leeds should be Top 4, but they aren't. We should be 5-8, and we are. We are therefore performing well relative to Leeds.

Hmm. It's not about aspiration - all clubs hope for and aspire to the achievements of the most successful clubs, that's why we are all here and the performances of Salford this year are inspirational. It's about realism in the context of breaking permanently into this group who, yes, have more resources and consequently better/deeper coaching teams/facilities and abilities to attract the very best players, notwithstanding the money to use the marquee rule.

Why so very personal? On one hand you demand respect and empathy for others' views, yet at the same time think it's OK to be inflammatory with "cringe", "vomit-inducing", "attack instigation" and so on. I don't understand why pointing out this context, which is fact-based, and articulated dispassionately, merits such an inflammatory response.

Why should Leeds be top 4? They were a middle 8’s team last season and have had poor recruitment for the past few years and haven’t replaced the major & key figures that helped bring them sustained success.

As we are 5th it’s hardly over performing just par for the course but added in some truly shocking performances with the odd decent one. If you’re happy with under performing with the relative squad we have then that’s your prerogative but spare the preaching with excuses.

The facts are clear it’s not about accountancy it’s about what is happening in the training complex and on the field in the 80mins or should that be isn’t happening!

We have spent up to full cap, have training facilities to rival the top and the players wAnt for nothing other than a coach that by his own admission can not get to the bottom of why these shocking performers happen not solve/rectify them.

We have had two glorious chances (regardless of excuses of over performing and accounting against the top 4) to all but seal 2nd or a play off spot against opposition that without disrespect we are & should be more than capable of beating at home. The clear facts are we failed to take the chances with terrible performances, he’ll even the Wigan game has we turned up for 80 mins would have won, also had Wajey not been so poor we’d have likely come away without 2pts as we weren’t great other than as usual a couple of purple patches.

The team is capable of much more and that is why I have lost patience as it’s not the defeats but the manner of them and the lack of any chance or desire to put some bloody structures in place to sort the issues that have blighted us and continue to do so.

AP stated he wouldn’t accept the huge spikes in good and bad performances and sacked Gentle. Yet we are actually worse now than under Gentle (with a better squad) and the gulf in our best and worse is bigger than ever and we are more inconsistent than ever.

I understand it's disappointing to come close. I take the point about variations in performance, completely. Nonetheless 2 GF appearances by clubs outside the top 4 group (and Bradford back in the day) out of a possible 42 is quite telling. It's not preaching, it's just a matter of fact. I do agree the team is capable of more but I also believe that our attack is over-reliant on Kelly's individual brilliance and we need to work much harder on Plan B as his injury record is concerning. We all want the same thing, of course, but just have different attitudes towards mid table status. To me it's more or less where I thought we'd be given our pack weaknesses, so I'm not going to get worked up about it. Others will point to games narrowly missed and fret about them, but for those close games there's a golden point win that Sneyd's pulled out the bag for us, perhaps undeservedly? They are just different perspectives.

The other point is there have been far more false dawns in SL through bringing in new coaches than there have been success stories. I'm just not that confident we could bring in someone guaranteed to be more successful and getting it wrong could set the club back a couple of years when, as you say, we're in the position of creating chances so arguably not a million miles off.

The only possible excuse for you, is that you work for hull fc, you speak complete and utter garbage, it’s disturbing, annoying, but I’m guessing that’s your motive

She's infuriating at best.
Stop replying to her, I'm trying too, it's pointless debating with a fool, as you become the fool yourself for persisting

I doubt anyone working for Hull FC would spend time highlighting the fact that teams outside the Big 4 haven't broken into that group in years, as obvious as it is. You're just being silly, and there's no need for the disrespectful language really.

You're the only 1 talking about sustained success. Everyone else just recognises that this group of players underperforms on a regular basis and consistently doesn't show the level of basic skill we should expect. Many believe the coach to be at fault, you don't. Performing to your capabilities has nothing to do with the turnover of your employer