Claiming the fact he is playing really well now proves he shouldn't have been criticised last season when in many people's opinion he was playing poorly makes no sense.

Its all about opinions. Some say he looks better because he was poor in previous seasons. Others, me included, say he looks better because he's playing where he should in a proper structured team. As others have mentioned the general levels of fitness are much higher across the board so he's not the only one who appears to be better than previously.

You're not grasping the point. Westerman has always been a skilled loose forward who plays at a great level of intensity, him playing really well now is down to him being utilised effectively. Obviously there'll still be some improvement down to him as he is playing much more confidently, as is often the case when these things happen.

I'm not grasping the point? Really?

The fact a player is skilled and plays with intensity doesn't mean they are immune from criticism if they make poor errors of judgement or perform poorly. I've never questioned his effort.

Westerman missed 6% of his tackles last season. His number of tackles was second only to Houghton. As a comparison, Whiting missed 5% of his tackles.

He made 28 errors at an average of 8 errors per 100 carries. This was our top error rate but not by much.

He gave away 3 more penalties all season than Whiting (those two were our worst offenders). And he was hardly the only one giving away needless penalties either.

There's some selective memory going on, but not where you seem to think.

By the way - his missed tackle count is currently worse (9%) and he's still joint top of penalties conceded. His error count is much better though.

Some interesting stats for you.

Joe Westerman missed tackles per game: 2014 - 3.25, 2013 - 1.8
Errors per game: 2014 - 0.5, 2013 - 1
Offloads per game: 2014 - 1.75, 2013 - 1.18
Penalties per game: 2014 - 1, 2013 - 0.6

So you're right about the errors, but with all of the other things you said the opposite is actually true. His tackling rate has actually got worse, he's missing more, averaging more offloads, and more penalties.

In other words he hasn't cut out the things he was getting criticised for.

You're right, it doesn't. I'm glad I never.

You beat me to it. It's not that he's improved what people criticised him for, because in fact he's currently worse than last year at most of it. It's more that he's finally being used for what he's best at, and in much stronger positions. Now that people are seeing that, they seem to fixating less on his every flaw.

Those stats mean nothing without context as you well know.

Players will always miss tackles and give away penalties it was the manner of them that caused me to criticise Joe. Take his offloads as an example, so far this year his offloads have been at the right time and they've actually been "on" whereas in the past it has been such a low percentage play that it was never going to come off.

What's Whiting got to do with it? When he makes mistakes I criticise him as well just like any other player. I criticise Houghton for parts of his game for instance. Why Westerman should be so protected by certain posters on this forum I have no idea.

Protected? Have you been reading the same forum as me?

Yeah, people always say that when they don't support their argument.

The stats back up what I and others saw last season and this. They don't agree with what you and others claim happened. In the absence of any other means of confirmation that's all we have to go on.

I conceded the error point to you. I agree with that and the offload issue that goes with it. I still disagree about the rest. He's given some silly penalties away already this season just as he always has (and just as has always been the case, not alone), and his tackling is not really any different.

The only difference IMO is that the way he's being utilised is letting him have more of an influence on the team, resulting in it being easier to see the positive side of him. As a result I think people are now cutting him more of the slack I personally think he has always deserved.

I used Whiting as a comparison because he was a player with a similar performance who didn't attract the same level of criticism. Had another player been closer I'd have used them.

You've been posting long enough to know I 'protect' any player who I think gets criticised unfairly. Westerman is just the latest whipping boy.

Needs to be spelled for me, a couple of his errors/penalties this year have been later in games. Spelling him for 10 or 15 minutes could address this. Could also allow us to give Heremaia more minutes without losing Houghton's graft.

This is what I don't understand. If I and a few others (seemingly including you) hold similar opinions to those we did last year, and the stats have also stayed fairly similar, why would it be us having selective memories?

I've been harangued for doing this before, don't go down that rabbit hole. FWIW I completely understand why you did so, they're the ideal comparison and illustrate the point perfectly.

+1. Would much rather increase Heremaia's minutes this way than in the halves, personally.

I'll give an example then. Last season he gave away a ridiculous penalty by running straight across a player chasing a kick right in front of the referee when there was absolutely no need. I criticised him for that because it was plain dumb. Has he done anything like that so far this season? Giving away a penalty for holding on slightly too long is completely different as that is a fine line.

You can go on thinking it's some sort of vendetta against the specific player if you like but it's simply not true, in my case at least.

Going back to stats for a moment, it's a shame the OPTA stats don't include games and minutes played (unless I'm missing something).
They would then provide a much more accurate comparison.

As I said certain people seem to have to taken it upon themselves to protect him from any criticism. Some go overboard with the criticism and some go overboard with defending and as with most things the truth is somewhere in the middle.

A lack of criticism for Whiting doesn't make any criticism of Westerman invalid. Maybe its not "fair" or particularly balanced when comparing the 2 but taken in isolation the criticism of certain aspects of Westermans performances in the past have been pretty warranted IMO.

So this isn't overboard....

I don't think so no. He was making errors giving away penalties and missing tackles without doing enough positive things to make up for it.

Comparing his contribution to the team now as opposed to previously and yes it was pretty ordinary IMO and I don't think that's overboard at all.

For me its 100% down to Radders. Not just with Westy but with improvement in all the players and more importantly the playing system. I never doubted Westys commitment but now, playing as a true 13 rather than a Tickle 13 he's getting his hands on ball at the ruck so much earlier. And the way Radders has us set up he can go either way with "6" type players at first receiver each side. On occasions we have 3 dummy runners ! Its so hard to defend against when the oppostion really cant read which way we'll go, because were not advertising it.
Importantly Westies speed of pick up and release at the scrum base gives us a new dimension. it gives us zip from the first pass and sets the tone for the line speed when we do decide to spin it out. Its like watching a different team. He's also big enough to bend the line if he wants to. This gives us so much more than he ever did as a wide receiver.
All the players are buying into it and all I think all are improving. The system is v similar to the way Shaun Wane has his side set up and I wouldnt be surprised if Tuson has had a lot bring to the party on this. We needed a versatile 13 to make it work like Wigan have, and in Westy I think we have the best around right now.
Now we just need to improve our defence which I'm sure Radders will and I can se us pushing top 4. Radders is looking an inspired selection from Pearson far better than I ever thought he would be. Long may it continue. COYH