We can change the forwards all we want, but if they are getting the ball standing still, or receiving a poor drop off from our spine, then can only see it being the same next season.
Quick question.....when was the last time you saw one of our halves get clobbered after passing the ball like we did to huddersfield last night? Answer.....no idea, as our halves dont engage the line!

I particularly enjoyed the 90s, probably a bit too much.
I was referring to the subject matter of the post being irrelevant and boring.

Resource context? Punching our weight?
What are you on about?
We were a couple of years ago the 3rd highest supported club in terms of attendance, iirc, only bettered by Leeds and Wigan, add in to that the gate receipts from finals.
In a salary capped sport with a relative level playing field cut the bs and spin. It does not wash.
Convince yourself all is rosy, Lee is the best coach ever and we're punching above our weight.
Set your expectations low and then you can never be disappointed.

Last night was yet another abysmal, inept, gutless performance against an even poorer side we should have beaten.
These displays and last nights Hull team are becoming a regular occurrence.
It's not acceptable and ultimately the head coach is responsible as the manager/leader of said group.

Don't question her Jake, you'll make yourself dizzy as you get caught up in her world of spin

I'm married mate and used to listening to the incessant buzzing in my ear so am immune to it

Connor ran across the line looking to create gaps and showed again he is a much better centre than stand off.

Sneyd, kicking game aside will just catch and pass so far away from the defensive line, making us easy to read and defend against.
You could count on 1 hand the amount of quality games he's had were he's taken on the line.

But but he's a double Lance Todd trophy winner I hear some of you say.
That does not make him a good player but merely the best player in that particular game. He is no where near international level and never will be until he adds more to his game and stops becoming a 1 trick pony.
He's got it in him, we just rarely see it.
But again imo our halves were still better then Hudds last night and should have bossed that game.

Our attacking structures are non existent which is why were so awful in the opposition 20. It looks like we simply don't do any attack training, nor di we back up the man with the ball, make much use of offload or dummy runners. And our passing is simply woeful. I saw one occasion last night when sneyd passed the ball and it bounced before reaching the player he passed to.

Changes needed imo

And who gives you the right to question how I feel?? No one!!

Feelings are personal to each individual are feelings right or wrong?Feelings are neither -they just are. If I said I felt hot would you question that? Yes you could argue it wasn’t warm but couldn’t question that I felt hot!! As you can’t know how I feel.

You are not a judge, a jury or an executioner yet discredit people’s opinions or feelings that don’t match yours yet want your views to be respected.
I’ve backed you up over the years when people called you for your negative diatribeas a form of self preservation but I think its more a case of youre just so full of yourself and you think your view/opinions are the only ones that count.

Now before I get accused of thread drift/derailment last night was just utter garbage and not good enough for a team hoping and talking crap like making a GF. Jesus wept the have been nilled twice, in recent weeks and were hot favourites to be relegated and we serve up another p!5s poor performance. The coach has had more than enough time to sort out the levels of performance and he simply hasn’t in fact I’d argue we are worse. Had Huddersfield been any better than utter themselves we’d have been 12 nil down after about 7 mins.

And the old but we won 2 challenge cups and in the top 5 after been told we’d finish bottom 4 arguemeny doesn’t wash either and you can only dine out of past success for so long before the plate is empty. We have had two massive opportunities to all but seal 2nd spot and failed spectacularly.

Do think we’ll look back at the last few years as a golden opportunity to win a Grand Final.
The quality of opposition generally has not been that amazing (compare this years Saints to the 2006 version that beat us), and a few tweaks could have seen us actually win the thing.

As for last night the amount of lateral movement was ridiculous, and has really crept into our game this year.
Lazy offloads onto static players (just passing responsibility on) going from side to side was symptomatic of the clueless nature of the performance. Shaul was the worst offender and has been all season.
Easy to defend and shows a real lack of attacking structures.

I agree Jake and said it many a times as have many others pointing to the issues they see as part of the problem. These issues were even more evident last night against team like Huddersfield (no disrespect) but our structures are just non existent. It was embarrassing to see players running along the line and team mates waving them to go forward yet none were prepared or making themselves available.
It’s all to cosy in squad and seemingly they and Radford are untouchable.

I’ve been willing to give Radford time as believed he’d earned the right to do so but last night it was clear to see he can’t take us any further. The same failings are there, no changes or improvements have been made, none of the issues seem to be being addressed in training. We continue to be too static as a group both in defence and attack. Think Radford relies to heavily on individual briliance by the players rather than instilling proper structures and plays into the group as a team hence why when one or two players have a poor night they all have a poor night.

With the money and facilities invested in the club by AP the product in the field is failing massively and that just isn’t right.

You've fallen into a trap of your own making here. Show some respect and empathy for me feeling OK that that we are at a level commensurate with our resources please. If you feel that the infrastructure and resources of our club are in the same ball park as Warrington, who own their own ground and have a backer worth £157m, I would respectfully disagree.

Positives - Shaul had his first decent game this season. Jordan Lane is the real deal, and far too smart a player for a Radford team. Satae is a machine.

Negatives - no effort or desire, no leader, no camaraderie. Said to my mate when we scored our second try and tied up the the score hardly anyone celebrated. Players already on the beach.

Work commitments mean it won’t make sense for me to bother with a season pass next year and honestly I’m less and less gutted about it every week.

Fair enough. How I feel is that we'll likely finish 7th, which I'm OK with given the shortcomings in our pack we all agreed on in pre season. I feel that if we can get Kelly back (or replace him) that will help, and that Fonua, Ma'u and Jones will improve us, in addition to getting Griffin and Naulago back. I feel optimistic that we can continue at the current level but that to expect more is unrealistic unless we can galvanise and leverage our only real asset ie the fanbase. I do not feel at my lowest ebb ever as a Hull fan. All feelings and opinions that require respect and empathy I think.

I get that point about Warrington, but conversely Hull have far more resources than a club like Salford who handed us a rugby lesson a few weeks ago.

To be quite honest and fair why should they? Bombed out is just as entitled to their option and to express their views as you or anyone else on here or so you’d think. Conversely they entitled to question your views in the same way you question and try to discredit others who’s views are different to yours.
You actually come across quite condescending and hypocritical, seemingly as a self proclaimed voice of reason which you certainly are not but maybe that’s just down to your defence mechanism who knows?

There are massive issues that are not being addressed and a coach who has even stated he doesn’t know how to fix it.

Nobody’s opinions are any less valid than yours or anyone else’s you should respect that before demanding respect for yours.

Had we not been in the position we have been then to extent I’d agree with you however we’ve had a golden opportunity in front of us more than once but failed spectacularly to take. Based on every other teams performances this season we are not a 7th placed team.

I agree the new signings will indeed improve us but in terms of player quality but we will unfortunately still be stuck with the same lack of any apparent structures in place. So we just won’t see the true potential of the improvements or get the best out of the what we have.

I don’t agree that we can’t expect more or it’s untealistic and we should just accept mediocrity.

The level of performance last night against a very poor Huddersfield side is and should be unacceptable and no excuses for it.
As for galvanising the fan base I agree but again the last two home performances as they are the most recent will do nothing to do that in fact it’s doing the opposite and actually driving people away and the boos ringing out last night are evidence of that and the contempt the players and coach seem to show in the fans. AP had also made a huge clanger by stating LR has the job for as long as AP is there when he is clearly unable to solve the issues that continue to dog the performances on the field.

You go on again about wanting respect and empathy yet you seem unable to do it yourself.

I haven’t and won’t question anyone’s feelings as you can’t and as I said in the past have defended you with you negative takes on pre match views etc being empathetic to you self defence mechanism but you show little if any to anyone else with views or feelings different to yours.

Of course, but you will always get some over and under performers - Leeds being the opposite of Salford if you like.

The reality is that Leeds, Wigan, Warrington and St Helens all file full accounts due to their size - assets, turnover, number of employees. The likes of us, Cas, Rovers are exempt. It's really not that surprising that these clubs dominate in the long term. Perhaps more surprising that others threaten this group for silverware on occasion.

It's not about accepting mediocrity or defence mechanisms. It's about realism and choosing to enjoy and see positives in what in my opinion is a reasonable position currently in a season where we've made another cup semi final and have optimism for next year. I'm entitled to this view and sentiment, as you are to yours.

Hypocrisy at it's finest.
I've not disagreed or questioned your feelings merely your opinion.
I guess with so many posters disagreeing with you and calling you on your lack of empathy you're feeling a bit sensitive.
Also in regards to the highlighted text, I never said or implied that.
Other than maybe the marquee rule I will once reiterate for you, it is a salary capped sport for which we are at full cap and not as disadvantaged as you would have us believe. I am also led to believe we will be utilising the marquee rule ourselves next season, so there's another excuse gone for you.

You always highlight your perceived opposition's strengths against our weaknesses to strengthen your position and give your hypothesis grounding.
It's flakey at best and meaningless.

We are discussing performances in either a coaching or playing capacity currently after another collapse but unfortunately that does not sit with your agenda so you find it easier to discredit other posters and belittle there views.

Not discussing resources.

I genuinely find you the most divisive person on here.


And to quote someone close to you.

Where did I say you aren't allowed an opinion? I was just disagreeing with you, chill out

For a champion of empathy and respect of opinion I feel that your post is a little inflammatory, but respect your sentiment. I understand that if you don't believe that resources should provide some sort of expectation framework it could be jarring to point out that the 4 sides who file full accounts are those who completely dominate, off field infrastructure and marquee signings not withstanding.

As for being divisive, this is a forum. We're not here to agree, that would be silly. I'm entitled to feel satisfied that this has been a reasonable season in the context of previous ones, and to share that. Hopefully you can empathise with this feeling.

Your entitled to your opinion like everyone. But your clearly wrong

Thanks, means a lot.

We are not and I repeat we are not discussing resources.
They have no bearing on the game last night, the inept display on the field or the fact our coach seems unable to arrest the slump or accept his failings and seems happy to publicly slate the players once again.

[uIS THAT CLEAR ENOUGH FOR YOU! [/u

Feel free to comment on last night's game (the clue is in the thread title if that helps).

Look, we got into this chat in response to a comment that last nigh made a poster feel the worst they had felt in 40 years. This naturally led to others reviewing points in this time period that had made them feel worse as a comparative, e.g. bankruptcy/extinction. The resources available will always have an impact, hence the long term dominance of the 4 biggest clubs. I hope that is clear enough.

In respect of last night resources available could also been seen as missing Naulago and Griffin (both up for POTY), plus Kelly, Minichiello and Savelio. However, I think the scoreline flattered us, and Huddersfield are hardly awash with quality, so it was very disappointing. The main concern I had was less the attacking efforts and more the easy yards Huddersfield made and this underlined that swapping Paea, Westerman, Minichiello and Manu for Satae, Ma'u, Jones and Sao will be moving us in the right direction.

Still no match report on the FC website - i might be jumping to conclusions but is there a reason for this?