I don't think he does, not sure any club in SL has had two quota players who can't get into their 17, add in Shaul that's a big about of cap that aren't good enough for the side.

He has made mistakes and and will do so, but what coach doesn't.

I never thought we improved in two years under Hodgson and his recruitment was awful.

I think we have improved this season in alot of areas, certainly play much better rugby and seem slightly better mentally.

And for all that we're 9th in the table.

We have a weak squad that needs massively improving, which is far easier said than done.



He has, everybody does. Had the perfect start to the year winning our first two, impetus behind us, losing the next 7 killed our season.



I don't disagree, Hodgson was a big, big mistake.
Who do we blame for that?




Let's be honest, it would have been disastrous not to see marginal improvement.
We are still miles off, Smith knows it and has mentioned it numerous times this season.
Nothing wrong with him giving that opinion but even so, can come across as fairly demoralising.

Not sure what point you are trying to make?

Season isn't over yet is it?

We have improved in since years, each year getting worse, so its OK saying it would be hard not to improve but it hasn't happened for ages. This is with probably the lowest paid squad in years too.

Smith has a tough job and there isn't an easy fix, but it looks to slowly heading in the right direction. I've certainly enjoyed watching the club more this season than any of the previous 6 or so seasons.

Likewise. You're trying to convince yourself that we are making strides forward, right now the table disagrees. That's how it's measured.

It's a grim reality like we've suddenly all been brainwashed to believe how cr@p we are (yep, we are pretty cr@p) and to be thankful of any green shoots of recovery.
We won back to back CC and got to 2 Grand-Final semi's in the very near distant past.
Had the squad to win everything according to some on here.


At least we don't have to worry ourselves about things like that now.

You don't understand my point, but have then just clarifed the point I was trying to make, doesn't really make sense does it.

As mentioned season not over yet, let's see how many wins we get where we finish.

The table certainly isn't the only measure of progress IMO.

I'm more of a positive person and would rather look at the positives rather than the negatives, unlike others on here, couldn't live my life like that.

My two penneth, I think the issue of being good enough to compete / be at the higher end of the table and improving and making strides forward are two separate things.

Are we good enough?
I don't think anyone would argue that we are simply not good enough nor have we been since the end of 2018. Poor recruitment/retention, mismanaged cap and inexperienced coaches have seen us fall back massively over the last 6 years with each year getting worse. The result of this saw the end of 2022 culminating in to one of, if not the worst endings to a season I can remember and left no one in any doubt what a basket case on the field the club was. That is going to take time to put right and there will be some ups and downs before it is.

Have we improved?
Think it's fair to say that even accounting for the 7 losing game streak we have improved and certainly made strides forward in terms of attitude and mentality though that should not have been a difficult task you'd think , however the lack of any improvement since 2018 shows that's not necessarily been the case. TS by and large still has pretty much the same issues with the squad due to the poor cap management and constrained by this existing deals etc its been a tough ask to turn anything round quickly.
I would say the rugby we play now is far better and more attractive and the score lines and performances have become much more consistent from the massive hammerings and towel throwing we'd become accustomed and known for.

There is still a hell of a lot of change, hard work and improvement to be made but I do believe under Smith we have seen changes which are for the better that show we are moving forward. Yes the current situation on signings for next season maybe a bit of a concern for us fans but hopefully the club will get the next round of recruitment right rather than panic and repeat the same mistakes we've made over the last 4 to 5 years.

Problem is we keep giving the average players contracts

Players like fash, cator, Lane give their all but we are 100% not winning a grand final with them in our pack

These are the real issues, they are will be low wage, the issues are players like Shaul, Evans, Dywer and Lovodua, high salaries or quota and not offering anything to the 17, replace these with better players and the likes of those become squad players.

For one thing last night he could have and should dropped Lane
Lovodua on the bench Why?

Last night feels like a bitter blow currently but I don't think its a case of season over just yet. We were god awful and was still in the game up until the DG with circa 8 minutes on the clock. By the time it comes to playing Wakey on Sunday, and you would surely fancy our chances against them, we could still be in well in the fight. It is a funny old season this year, lets see how the next couple weeks pan out before ruling the season out.

The problem is Chris you mention the rugby we we are playing is better and more attractive but thats mainly due to three players who are leaving the club Clifford,Swift and too a lesser extent Satae.
keep saying this but we are playing catch up with most S/L clubs and can see some real panic buys coming into the club however until the club know how much they will receive from the newTV deal my opinion is they cannot do any overseas deals.

Don't you think Smith has anything to do with the way we play?

The second point is you just making a massive assumption to fit your negative outlook. You literally have no proof that we are playing catch up with recruitment. We're not the only team to have announced no signings yet.

I think we are:

Warrington - Lachlan fitzgibbon
Wigan - Walters, Keighran, Chan, leeming
Leeds - Goudemond
St Helens -Mbye, Clarke
Huddersfield - George Flanagan jnr from Bradford plus probably swift
Catalan - Satae
Hull kr - Gildart
Wakefield - Griffin
Cas - Putt, Horne
Salford - singleton
Leigh - Dan norman

Swift not announced.

Singleton, Griffin, Flanagan, Horne, Mybe for this season.

Don't think Norman has signed for Leigh.

Wigan and Rovers have done alot of business for next whilst not much by other clubs.

Putt not announced.

So if you take norman out, every club bar us and Leigh has announced a signing, Horne and Griffin are for next season too

Don't think all of those signings have been confirmed.

If you stuck Tindall and Ashworth on our list would it look better than Salford or Leigh only having 1 signing.

We're all desperate for us to announce something but let's see where we are September/October time. If we've only announced Tindall or Ashworth by that time then we can start panicking.

Smith has a big chunk of cap space to play with, he needs to get the right players in, in terms of playing and the type of person they are. The players we're now linked with in aus are a good sign.

Not for next season, alot of clubs have made signings for this season though.

Griffin,Horne, Mbye and singleton all signed with deals going into next season.

So it just Leigh not to announce a signing alongside us

So did Sutcliffe, Trueman and Hoy.

It’s a fair point about Clifford though I think a lot of it is down to the change in coach and what he has brought to the club. Don’t get me wrong Swift is great and we’re gonna miss him but it should be noted he’s playing his best rugby under Smith.
Satae is still on his one the best forwards in SL but as Thursday night showed he is also very inconsistent and can be more often pretty average.

I think most players have improved in the short time that Smith has been here, the only one than seems to not have is Lane.

I doubt think it’s wrong to say but minus Griffin we have the smallest and poorest SR options so if we can improve that for next season it will be be a big improvement.

We definitely need more quality additions and to replace the players leaving with the same level of player. We’ve let Griffin & Evans go without replacing them which also doesn’t help.

Still think come pre season we will be much better but it isn’t going to happen overnight due to the mess left by both Radford & Hodgson.

They are not all confirmed so you might as well say Hull FC - Tindall and Ashworth.

Some of those are pretty uninspiring too.