What are the odds when you compare him to one of the clubs outside the top 8,KR for instance

Tackles
Horney..286....Green 480

Marker
Horney 35....Green 62

Missed Tackles
Horney..40...Green 25

Errors..Horney 30!...Green 14

What's the odds!

Why have you chosen defensive stats? Your whole argument was based on his step & dummy not being good enough and his pace. Doesn't back up your argument one bit.

Oh so we can dismiss that aspect of his game then

You mean you THINK you understand more about rugby than Marfa.

Nor does you putting you opinion across.


I believe Standee & Marfa both made points about Horne to show he has not been good enough. Yes there are other factors involved but they have just as much right to base their opinions on what they see as you do on what you see. Neither of you can be deemed right or wrong, that will have to wait till next season when he will hopefully get a chance to concentrate on his own game rather than trying to play a game he just isn't up to (IE leading a side around the field, kicking etc)

You know the difference between subjective and objective, right?

Plus what's going on in your head on matchday isn't the kind of evidence you can present to others.

People who don't rate Horne spent years dismissing his defensive capabilities as irrelevant for a halfback when they were offered up as a strength. Now suddenly they're important? You also left out that Green has given away 14 pens to Horne's 4 which somewhat offsets the defence stats.

The fact is that his overall stats compare favourably with a stand off playing in a current top 4 side and with recent International honours. Kinda blows the 'not good enough for top 4' argument out of the water.

Edited for accuracy.

But you are dismissing their opinion of Horne, which to be fair a lot of people share. If you look at his form over the last 3 years he has not been good enough, but there is a chance he may improve if he is allowed to go back to his own game. There is just as much chance he will continue to be poor overall regardless of the game he is playing.

The link posted above suggests that this season he has been as good as Kevin Brown, who plays for a top 4 side and has played for England. Should Hudds be looking to get rid of him?

stats are not everything tho.

Try putting some different names from h/backs who are lower in the league than us, then you will get the objective evidence!

No it does not blow it out of the water, you have used one other player in the stats



I do not dismiss defence in any player, I expect h/backs to be good defensively, Longy had a superb defence game which was often unnoticed possibly due to his other strengths on show.
We disagree which is not a problem, you claimed Craig Hall was great and Yeamo pants which I disagreed with and still do and I was proved right there. As much as you claim we offer nothing objective in our argument nor do you in yours.

and the goalposts move yet again

good post absolutely spot on.

The Kevin Brown example was used because you said that Horne was not good enough for a top 4 side, and the stats show when compared to Brown, that Horne is as good as, if not better then Brown (who plays for a top 4 side).

It really isn't that difficult.

Appearances:
Horne 22
Briers 18
Finch 19
Gaskell 19
Brown 21
Chase 22

Tries:
Horne 5
Briers 14
Finch 5
Gaskell 7
Brown 6
Chase 12

Try Assists:
Horne 13
Briers 16
Finch 13
Gaskell 9
Brown 12
Chase 22

Attacking Kicks:
Horne 102
Briers 112
Finch 83
Gaskell 60
Brown 49
Chase 170

Kicks in general play:
Horne 152
Briers 163
Finch 121
Gaskell 127
Brown 57
Chase 240

Clean Breaks:
Horne 12
Briers 11
Finch 9
Gaskell 6
Brown 9
Chase 12

Meters:
Horne 1647
Briers 1044
Finch 982
Gaskell 1014
Brown 1340
Chase 2539

Errors:
Horne 30
Briers 24
Finch 24
Gaskell 32
Brown 27
Chase 30

Although stats aren't everything, Horney's more than match up to the stand offs in the current top 4 sides.

And Rangi Chase has by far and away the best stats of the players I've compared.

The only issue I have with Horne is the hit and miss kicking and the continual use of the all too well read drop off.

He's not a world beater but he's not that bad either, i think with a decent partner to link with who can organise we will see a difference and if we dont we have options now.

Whether 2 years was right time will tell.

but you must understand that those arguments are not relevant to sweeties argument are they, especially the metres stat

but his short kick is spot on, never been a long kicker at all, ever....
but agree 100% once he settles into regular play with a regular hooker and half partner he will shine bright again, but is doing well as he is considering he is almost running it alone now

No it is not difficult, I want a quality h/back who is capable of taking our team to the top, not an average one like Horney but one like Rangi Chase now trot along and compare those stats and you will understand why I want this....really it isn't that difficult!

When that one player not only plays for a top 4 side but has also appeared for England it certainly [idoes[/i blow the argument that Horne isn't good enough for a top 4 team out of the water. Unless you're suggesting that Brown isn't good enough for a top 4 side either?