I'm not saying we should make 'wholesale' changes though but big changes. That for me means a couple of big decisions need to be made with regards who deserves a spot in the team, and also big changes to the way we line up (not dropping tons of players but re-jigging the side) and the way we play

And arguably us in our Derby win last season.

Completely agree with this assessment. Wish I could bring myself to believe it will happen.

Its odd then that 7 teams have scored less points then us?

We played some very good rugby in the first 5 games of the season because we were winning the battle and had the territory to use the ball in attack. Our intensity has dropped off and we therefore dont have the field position to attack. The few times we have tried something different in our own half we have come up with the error and the opposition has usually scored from it.

Sounds a hell of a lot different to what you actually say though. Just because you post it on here, doesn't mean it's how you actually feel.

Not really. Scoring points doesnt always mean you are the most attractive attacking side in the league.

7 teams may have scored less, should be 10 teams or more the way we are capable of playing.

It's a good indicator. After 5 games we were averaging 25-30 points a game without hammering anybody to skew it. Robbo is spot on we've been losing the battle up front ala 2008 (when our points for was crap) in the last 2/3 games and everything else stems from that.

Yeah ok then

Still dont see how we can be the most boring and negative side in the league when 7 other teams have failed to score more points than us. 1 of those teams being Wigan who have scored less whilst having played a game more. Teams like Celtic may be good to watch but they've scored half the points we have and haven't won a single game.

We play 5 drives and a kick, a lot of our points in the 5 games game from short range kicks. That may be effective but relying on it like we did isnt positive and isnt attractive to me.

You are Phil Clarke and I claim my fiver.

Im regularly called worse!!

Lots of teams score trys from kicks. I can think of several really good trys this year that haven't come from kicks. I'm as frustrated as anybody with our play at times but the main reason its not currently working is that we are losing the battle up front so dont have the field position to attack.

We're not in a position to be choosy

It isnt effective when your opposition know exactly thats all you are gonna throw att them !
( Apart from the extremely rare early kick by Thorman straight down the throat of an opponent )

Were not exactly hard to defend against !!!!

Yup, should have said it may have been effective for the first 5 games til teams got used to it.

Salford were able to line up 20 metres in at either side of the pitch to compress their defence and not once did we test them other than the try.

We are, we have the players to move away from 5 drives and a kick, im sure of it.

I agree, but if you are losing a battle up front why stick to the plan of 5 drives and a kick. Why not try breaking through a team like Salford on the fringes which is where they shipped their tries v rovers etc?

We are coached to be inflexible and our play is so rigid its unbelievable.

Only if they can be d.

We were losing the battle up front because the players aren't putting the required effort in. Just after we scored from deep against Salford we tried to do it again and dropped the ball. Guess what? Everyone starts moaning that we are turning the ball over too cheaply and get on the players back and they stop doing it. It wasn't just 5 drives and a kick until we made a few errors deep within our own half. The same thing happened against Cas.

So why doesnt the coach get the message out to keep trying it?

I still dont see a lack of effort as the issue.

I also think we played some good stuff in the 1st 5 games. I thought our forwards won the the battle in all of those games and that put us on the front foot. I thought our line speed was also good and we forced teams to make a lot of errors.

We seem to have gone away from that totally and I believe a lot of it must be down to attitude.

What he said.

If we're being serious this 5 drives and a kick thing is not quite correct anyway. Manu wasn't driving when he put Hall in the clear. Similarly we weren't driving when we scored a well coached move direct from a scrum. Our ailings are not 5 drives and a kick they are a lack of intensity with and without ball in hand. Effort in other words.

Maybe those 5 clubs werent up to speed yet? Theyve got fitter and we havent?

Maybe he decided that after the players had mucked it up a few times that we should play a bit safer, particularly in our own half.

We are by no means perfect but we are nowhere near as bad as some are making out.