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| Waited a long time for this coming and hopefully get some money back in the coffers for all the clubs
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| wow!!!!!! we are in lockdown and no crowds with 15 cases a day you guys over 1000 a day and full capacity - well done UK showing us aussies what to do
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| Quote ="BOJ042"wow!!!!!! we are in lockdown and no crowds with 15 cases a day you guys over 1000 a day and full capacity - well done UK showing us aussies what to do'"
I guess you’re being cocky here, didn’t the recent SO have big crowds. And regarding showing Oz, you decided you’d hide from Covid, you’ve done very little vaccination wise, the saying “you can run but you can’t hide” suits Oz and NZ perfectly at the moment. When these two countries open up it will be carnage numbers wise sadly.
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| Quote ="BOJ042"wow!!!!!! we are in lockdown and no crowds with 15 cases a day you guys over 1000 a day and full capacity - well done UK showing us aussies what to do'"
It's not the cases that count. It's the numbers in ICU you need to count.
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| Quote ="PopTart"It's not the cases that count. It's the numbers in ICU you need to count.'"
And the death rate which is now astonishingly low. Put bluntly in its current form it’s no more a killer disease than any other. This could change and nobody wants to tempt fate but you cannot justify shutting down an economy for one day more with the current figures.
I have no actual figure to prove this but I’d guess the daily death rate from Covid is now not much more than those from road accidents, overdoses or industrial accidents and nobody bats an eye at those.
Again I’m not belittling Covid it’s been dreadful but we simply must move on now and take calculated risks to get back some normality.
I totally agree with Jinjer, the Aussies are hiding behind there countries vast size and remoteness but when the world opens back up they will have no choice but to re-engage, they are not a stand alone nation despite the arrogance they sometimes exude. When they do they may be in some serious bother.
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| Quote ="vastman"And the death rate which is now astonishingly low. Put bluntly in its current form it’s no more a killer disease than any other. This could change and nobody wants to tempt fate but you cannot justify shutting down an economy for one day more with the current figures.
I have no actual figure to prove this but I’d guess the daily death rate from Covid is now not much more than those from road accidents, overdoses or industrial accidents and nobody bats an eye at those.
Again I’m not belittling Covid it’s been dreadful but we simply must move on now and take calculated risks to get back some normality.
I totally agree with Jinjer, the Aussies are hiding behind there countries vast size and remoteness but when the world opens back up they will have no choice but to re-engage, they are not a stand alone nation despite the arrogance they sometimes exude. When they do they may be in some serious bother.'"
I would of thought that the vaccine has played a big part in the control of Covid, we can only watch an report and act if it gets any worse
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| Quote ="snowie"I would of thought that the vaccine has played a big part in the control of Covid, we can only watch an report and act if it gets any worse'"
It's interesting that there is an expectation of cases rising to 50,000 per day after the new easing of lockdown restrictions, a number significantly greater than the previous peak.
Whilst accepting the very low mortality numbers, this is one hell of a gamble - everything is going on red, with the UK going it alone in now allowing covid to spread at will but, hoping that it wont kill too many.
It's hard to be certain but, we appear to be the only nation taking this approach ?
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| Quote ="wrencat1873"It's interesting that there is an expectation of cases rising to 50,000 per day after the new easing of lockdown restrictions, a number significantly greater than the previous peak.
Whilst accepting the very low mortality numbers, this is one hell of a gamble - everything is going on red, with the UK going it alone in now allowing covid to spread at will but, hoping that it wont kill too many.
It's hard to be certain but, we appear to be the only nation taking this approach ?'"
My other concern is that a greater prevalence of the virus in a population gives increased likelihood of mutations and new variants developing and with most now vaccinated, there could be one that appears which gets around the vaccine.
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| Quote ="wrencat1873"It's interesting that there is an expectation of cases rising to 50,000 per day after the new easing of lockdown restrictions, a number significantly greater than the previous peak.
Whilst accepting the very low mortality numbers, this is one hell of a gamble - everything is going on red, with the UK going it alone in now allowing covid to spread at will but, hoping that it wont kill too many.
It's hard to be certain but, we appear to be the only nation taking this approach ?'"
Stopping the economy is a far bigger one.
Sometimes in life, you have to be pragmatic and seize the day, it's what made this nation, and that has to include a level of sacrifice.
Now I'm not suggesting Somme levels here but with the current case to death ratio lockdown cannot be justified. Even if it went up pro-rata to infections it still couldn't.
By seizing the day I mean this. Whether you think Boris is a lucky clown, or you are anti-Brexit etc, the UK is now the best positioned country in Europe and perhaps the world to make a strong economic recovery. This is not a political opinion it's just how it's turned out, whether by luck or judgement Boris has hit gold with the vaccines and it would be criminal to waste it.
I'm not a fan of the EU and I was never convinced leaving would be a disaster but now we have a chance to make good any losses far more easily than we might otherwise have done. It's not great that thousands died and that this may well make a prize clown look like Churchill to some but it would be incredibly churlish and counterproductive as a nation to let that get in our way.
It's sink or swim for the UK and we may have just been thrown a life belt.
So sorry but for me, it's no gamble, it's a necessity.
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| Quote ="coco the fullback"My other concern is that a greater prevalence of the virus in a population gives increased likelihood of mutations and new variants developing and with most now vaccinated, there could be one that appears which gets around the vaccine.'"
So you want to stay like this forever and return to the dark ages?
I understand your concern but a line has to be drawn. Not every life can be protected, we are all going to die, the virus now has to run its course even if that means more death. We at least know we now have numerous vaccines that can cope and be improved, the truth is from now on Covid will have to be treated like the flu, and with that will come a level of death.
I'm vulnerable and two family members are so I'm not being glib, but we can't go on like this.
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| Quote ="vastman"So you want to stay like this forever and return to the dark ages?
I understand your concern but a line has to be drawn. Not every life can be protected, we are all going to die, the virus now has to run its course even if that means more death. We at least know we now have numerous vaccines that can cope and be improved, the truth is from now on Covid will have to be treated like the flu, and with that will come a level of death.
I'm vulnerable and two family members are so I'm not being glib, but we can't go on like this.'"
My sentiments exactly
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| Quote ="vastman"Stopping the economy is a far bigger one.
Sometimes in life, you have to be pragmatic and seize the day, it's what made this nation, and that has to include a level of sacrifice.
Now I'm not suggesting Somme levels here but with the current case to death ratio lockdown cannot be justified. Even if it went up pro-rata to infections it still couldn't.
By seizing the day I mean this. Whether you think Boris is a lucky clown, or you are anti-Brexit etc, the UK is now the best positioned country in Europe and perhaps the world to make a strong economic recovery. This is not a political opinion it's just how it's turned out, whether by luck or judgement Boris has hit gold with the vaccines and it would be criminal to waste it.
I'm not a fan of the EU and I was never convinced leaving would be a disaster but now we have a chance to make good any losses far more easily than we might otherwise have done. It's not great that thousands died and that this may well make a prize clown look like Churchill to some but it would be incredibly churlish and counterproductive as a nation to let that get in our way.
It's sink or swim for the UK and we may have just been thrown a life belt.
So sorry but for me, it's no gamble, it's a necessity.'"
Is it really "sink or swim" and if so, why is the UK the only nation that is taking this particular route ?
Also, our new Health Secretary is suggesting that we will see 100,000 new cases every day.
Even with very small percentages ending up in hospital and dying, is this the right approach - as I say, only the UK has gone for the schmidt or bust, risk everything on red approach.
After 15 months of restrictions, the "now or never claim" seems bloody ludicrous, it clearly isn't now or never.
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| Will be interesting to see if the clubs want fans double jabbed to go to games. Boris has already made the next step by removing isolation rules for people who have had both Jabs. Think it’s only a matter of time before some restrictions come in that may involve watching sport.
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| Quote ="supercat"Will be interesting to see if the clubs want fans double jabbed to go to games. Boris has already made the next step by removing isolation rules for people who have had both Jabs. Think it’s only a matter of time before some restrictions come in that may involve watching sport.'"
Nah, it's all open now (well in 10 days time).
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| Quote ="wrencat1873"Is it really "sink or swim" and if so, why is the UK the only nation that is taking this particular route ?
Also, our new Health Secretary is suggesting that we will see 100,000 new cases every day.
Even with very small percentages ending up in hospital and dying, is this the right approach - as I say, only the UK has gone for the schmidt or bust, risk everything on red approach.
:130a4ub6After 15 months of restrictions, the "now or never claim" seems bloody ludicrous, it clearly isn't now or never.[
It clearly is, you do understand basic economics. Ludicrous is shutting the country down for lower death rates than the flu. This is not a game, a crash will follow and we need to be back in business before anyone else especially the EU who are useless imho. Thought you might have worked that out due to the vaccine success, why waste it for christ sake.
Who said s or bust its just common sense as the figures now add up, Boris is many things but even he isn't that stupid as to miss the boat on this one.
Maybe just for once accept that something has gone in our favour and we are right and we have to be brave, instead of hiding from reality as you seem to be.
It will survival of the fittest imo, if you can't see that I think you're in for a very rude awakening.
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| Quote ="vastman"
Hiding ? You're having a laugh, aren't you.
I accept and am delighted with the vaccine roll out and was jabbed just as quickly as I was allowed
What I am really struggling with is the prospect of 100,000 cases per day (as quoted by the new health minister.
Whilst accepting that hospitalisations and thankfully deaths are massively down, with 100,000 cases per day, what on earth will happen to the hospitalisations and deaths.
That number of cases would be 3 to 4 times the previous peak and although the death rate is significantly lower, there is likely to be chaos and this will be as we enter the busier winter months for hospitals.
As for Johnson, of course he's desperate to get the economy rolling and some money into the government coffers.
Cases are already up to 25,000+ per day (and rising) and this is before all hell breaks loose.
Interesting when you talk about "wasting the vaccine success", which is why we should keep unlocking in stages.
If the virus mutates, because of significantly higher numbers of infections, the vaccine will be less effective and at this point, we really will have "wasted the vaccine".
Personally, I'm fairly relaxed, having been pretty healthy all my life so, I'm certainly not hiding.
This looks like one hell of a desperate last throw of the dice, with all reason and following the science, gone in a flash.
Lets hope that a man not known for telling the truth, has got this HUGE call somewhere near right, for all of our sakes.
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| Yes, we have to find a way of living with Covid and have to keep moving in that direction. I think a couple of steps along the way may have been prudent. I agree that there should be personal responsibility but normally the results of a lack of responsibility would rest upon the irresponsible person. With mask wearing that unfortunately isn't the case. The mask protects others not the wearer. So person A doesn't feel like wearing a mask and person B catches Covid, then the results of A's "irresponsibility" are borne by B.
Personally I would have kept mask wearing on public transport and inside. Staff working in these environments should be able to feel reasonably safe. If after another period of time everything was OK then relax the mask wearing. It's going to be much harder to bring it back in if it's needed.
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| Quote ="sandcat20"Yes, we have to find a way of living with Covid and have to keep moving in that direction. I think a couple of steps along the way may have been prudent. I agree that there should be personal responsibility but normally the results of a lack of responsibility would rest upon the irresponsible person. With mask wearing that unfortunately isn't the case. The mask protects others not the wearer. So person A doesn't feel like wearing a mask and person B catches Covid, then the results of A's "irresponsibility" are borne by B.
Personally I would have kept mask wearing on public transport and inside. Staff working in these environments should be able to feel reasonably safe. If after another period of time everything was OK then relax the mask wearing. It's going to be much harder to bring it back in if it's needed.'"
I hear many people calling for mask wearing to be mandatory, yet many of those people object to making vaccinations compulsory. They can’t have it both way, if vaccinations are a personal choice, then mask wearing should be.
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| Quote ="vastman"So you want to stay like this forever and return to the dark ages?
I understand your concern but a line has to be drawn. Not every life can be protected, we are all going to die, the virus now has to run its course even if that means more death. We at least know we now have numerous vaccines that can cope and be improved, the truth is from now on Covid will have to be treated like the flu, and with that will come a level of death.
I'm vulnerable and two family members are so I'm not being glib, but we can't go on like this.'"
The point is, every (or a major proportion) can be protected.
It was never about whether covid would spread. It is about whether we can handle it.
last year we couldn't. People were vulnerable and NHS couldn't handle the numbers
Now many are vaccinated, major numbers are not vulnerable and those that are can potentially be handled by the NHS, so death rate is massively reduced.
Its just lowered the risk to a manageable level.......so worth opening up the economy.
Economy wise, it isn't going to be plain sailing. For UK it will be great as we all spend our money in our local shops. Internationally, Europe and rest of the world could still cut us off if they are not ready. But starting up first gives us a great opportunity.
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| Quote ="Dunkirk Spirit"I hear many people calling for mask wearing to be mandatory, yet many of those people object to making vaccinations compulsory. They can’t have it both way, if vaccinations are a personal choice, then mask wearing should be.'"
I was pro both but mask and vaccines are hardly the same. Vaccine is permanent. Mask is for Asda.
I can see me still wearing a mask in some places if I think it looks necessary. I never had a problem with masks............in fact, people say I look better with one
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| Quote ="vastman"So you want to stay like this forever and return to the dark ages?
I understand your concern but a line has to be drawn. Not every life can be protected, we are all going to die, the virus now has to run its course even if that means more death. We at least know we now have numerous vaccines that can cope and be improved, the truth is from now on Covid will have to be treated like the flu, and with that will come a level of death.
I'm vulnerable and two family members are so I'm not being glib, but we can't go on like this.'"
Not at all, but it's not 'all or nothing'. The economy can get pretty much back to normal while still mitigating the spread of the virus. Retaining mask wearing in certain indoor public spaces and transport to protect staff and retaining registration at public venues to enable monitoring of the spread would not prevent economic activity.
'Back to business as usual' is a political decision and this government has got form for being slow to react when things start going wrong. I'm not saying things will get out of hand, but it is possible and Boris & friends will be reluctant to return to any form of limitation once they are lifted. Whilst the infection rate is so high, it seems unnecessary and reckless to remove all checks & balances in one fell swoop.
Will other countries limit the movement of Brits if the case rate is out of control? Even if we're mostly vaccinated, other countries are still vulnerable.
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| Quote ="Dunkirk Spirit"I hear many people calling for mask wearing to be mandatory, yet many of those people object to making vaccinations compulsory. They can’t have it both way, if vaccinations are a personal choice, then mask wearing should be.'"
Show me some evidence that many of the people who object to compulsory vaccination are calling for mask wearing to be compulsory. I think you’ve made that up.
Sandcat’s right - there should be some loosening of restrictions but wearing a mask in shops and on public transport is no big deal and should stay mandatory for the time being. People can choose to go in a crowded pub, theatre or nightclub but many don’t have the choice when it comes to shopping and transport.
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| Quote ="Kevs Head"Show me some evidence that many of the people who object to compulsory vaccination are calling for mask wearing to be compulsory. I think you’ve made that up.
Sandcat’s right - there should be some loosening of restrictions but wearing a mask in shops and on public transport is no big deal and should stay mandatory for the time being. People can choose to go in a crowded pub, theatre or nightclub but many don’t have the choice when it comes to shopping and transport.'"
You can’t listen to the news without hearing politicians, Trade union, human rights civil rights leaders of BAME communities all objecting to compulsory vaccines, no sooner had Borris finished his press conference last night, we had Sir Keir Starmer, denouncing personal choice for masks soon followed by the rest of the none compulsory vacation supporters. Just let people make their own decisions, we’ve had nearly 18 months of restrictions, yes the Covid cases are rising, but thankfully the death rate is not. It won’t be long before herd immunity is achieved.
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| So you have no evidence to back up your ludicrous assertion.
“Just let people make their own decisions”. The problem is that decisions you make may not affect you but might effect someone else. You don’t let people make their own decisions about the speed they drive so why make keeping people safe from Covid infection a personal choice?
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| The mandatory wearing of masks just makes sense, it does not impact on an individual’s freedoms but protects other from contacting Covid. We currently have over 28,000 daily new cases with a possibility of this increasing to 100,000 after the 19th. The current variation at that level will increase hospitalisations and deaths but probably whatever these are it will be acceptable for the freedom of not wearing a mask.
The unknown is that as the number of cases increases so does the risk of a new variation, this may not be controlled by current vaccinations.
The question is would you rather wear a mask and reduce the numbers and the possibility of creating a new variation or take Boris’s gamble and throw them away. He appears to have forgone data for dates.
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