I would like to ask Mr Carter about what he said yesterday. We were spending beyond our means ??????????
This cannot be on playing staff as we are probably one of the lowest spenders and we are well under the salary cap. We have all been let down badly once again. How much over spend on staff to player ratio. It is a complete joke and we have all been let down badly once again. Course I will buy my season ticket as Wakefield is in my blood but once again we have been let down badly once again! Overspending beyond our means they haven't got Wakefield at heart ! COMPLETE UTTER DISGRACE WE ALL DESERVE BETTER !

The people at the top were living beyond their means. I smell a huge rat it makes me sick

He kind of answered that by saying some of the players were paid way over the odds in his opinion.

Also, although I agree with your point, it is difficult to see how the overspend happened, but also, you don't know what your income is until the league is well under way

You sign players on contracts based on what you forecast to be your income.
Problems with that include, contracts come before season ticket offers - often people will wait to see what the team is before buying the tickets
Home games may not be spread evenly - we know that having Leeds, Bradford and Cas at the end of the season caused earlier cash flow issues.
You don't know when you are going to be on Sky. I think you get a £20k from Sky if you are on tv but that might be more or less than you would get if not on tv
Weather - !
Form of team - !
And of course Sponsors not able to pay

It isn't easy to do

To my mind it's simple. We have not generated sufficient income. Giving away season tickets last year did not help, even next years are underpriced, whatever team we manage to put on the field.

Most clubs are skint that is acknowledged. Most cannot generate the income to cover expenses, so expenses need to be cut. Biggest expenses are wages which equates to the salary cap being too high and players paid too much.

I am afraid rugby is becoming just like football and Dr K will not help this. Those with sugar daddies will survive those without will just have to cut their cloth accordingly. Just like football is the championship a far better league with a more level playing field?

If what we keep hearing about business plans is correct, then maybe the problem lies in the number of season tickets sold, rather than the cost (which is known from the outset, and factored into the plan). That said, it was the magical 10K crowds that were supposed to determine whether or not we could spend the full cap, not whether we could pay the cleaners.

We have a business plan drawn up for Newmarket as well, apparently, should we ever get there. God help us if the same persons were involved in drawing up both.

The difficulties lie in forecasting annual expenses vs annual income.
Its not like walking into woolworths and buying the goods in your basket.
SL is a very mismatched enterprise that with its habit of switching plans mid season doesnt help.
The Eric France thing suddenly left us high and dry, the weather left us high and dry with our big earning Leeds home game, the RFL pressuring us into un-necessary ground improvements have not helped, two years without any league sponsorship money isn't great either.
The fact that you can go weeks without a home game and therefore income (even during the season) isn't helpful.
These are all obsticles that are going against you before you start, many of them unforseen and some just down right unlucky or ludicrous.
Trying to marry income against all or some of these irregular factors does not make for a fun time when you have regular mayments going out, unless you have a very healthy bank account or a care free backer (we have neither) to help you through the inevitable tough times.
Look at it this way if your employer varied your pay day and your income each month how would you arrange your direct debits each month.
Without doubt we havent helped ourselves and we know where the blame lies, one has lost a lot of his own money and some credibility, the other has proven himself to be incompetent, lacking in dignity and without credibility. Both have been dishonest with the fans for right or wrong.
What it shows is that without a uber money generating club or backing from a Jonny Dollars this is the kind of business running a SL club is.
For me the biggest culprit in all this is the game of SL rugby itself.
I would argue that much of the RFLs shambolic leadership has led to us and other clubs (of a type) to be in similar strife, keeping up with your rivals in a scramble to avoid being the bottom of the pack even without promotion and relegation has proven to be a costly exercise for many.
You only have to look at the SL table to spot the really succesful clubs, and they are few, the rest are just basket cases with a dream.
All expouse good financial management, but it doesnt take much to scratch the surface and see the majority of the game for what it was.
So you see it is easy to spend beyond your means, its just a case of where you apportion blame, abd then how you can fathom a way forward in a sea of unfathomable problems.

I think he's intimating that people other than the players have been taking too much, you don't need seasonal forecasts to set wages for admin staff who are permanent and as such should have their wages set on the basis of the guaranteed income as in Sky payments, so it begs two questions :-

1. what percentage of the wage budget was paid to non playing staff ?

2. who determined what those wages were?

One point he made about looking after the accounts until November, then getting someone in to doing them and taking his eye off the ball.
Is this around the time we brought in someone to take over the finances because of the CCJ's we were receiving?

Does that mean that he was in charge of dealing with the finances at the time of last Octobers 'oversight' with HMRC which lead to a winding up petition being issued?

Look lets put all this in a nut shell!. All superleague teams except Leeds Wigan and the bank rolled teams are in financial difficulties to say the least.
This is not of their making and should not be blamed, the start of these problems goes back to the introduction of superleague and the blame lies firmly at the door of the RFL.
It was their pipedream to copy football and make the game a full time global sport and if us supporters of the game are honest we know that this would never work. The game belongs along the M62 corridor and big full time football wages are not affordable.
It is my belief that the teams supporting this move originally (indeed instigating it) would be Leeds and Wigan the only ones at that time because they could afford it, well maybe they will end up like the old firm teams Celtic and Rangers and play one another half a dozen times home and away whilst the rest go back to reality pre Superleague.

We have tons of commercial staff why when we were in trouble financially we keep hiring? a 1500/2500 salary per month will take its toll on the club. I think our playing staff budget is about right. Don't get it.

How can you say the playing staff is about right?
We don't know how much they are paid but Carter does, and he says some are over paid?
I'm thinking he has a better idea?

All businesses are duty bound to control their costs and although its easy to be wise with the benefit of hindsight.
WHY have we as a club not managed to control our costs.
The new management need to be ruthless and if something is not needed within the business, get rid and lets work with the essentials and then build up from there.
We know that the Eric France deal went pear shaped but, how much brass did they actually hand over and how long did we wait before realising that they weren't paying ?

Ok for example I am with a big company worldwide a marketing manager will be pocketing 60k a year. Wakey marketing manager on a big figure. Someone who coaches cheerleading on a big figure plus match day cash. Longo, Fozzard etc etc. They had the best interest of club to heart??? MY FOOT ! Don't make me angry it makes me sick.

Please tell me you are not in media for this big worldwide company?????
What are you trying to say?
Mrs Elston (clearly in her job because of Mr Elston, and basically a cheerleader in a marketing managers job (all agreed)) is on £60k per year?
I doubt it!!
Not sure about the fozzard, Longo thing; if we were in as much trouble as we are now- then, I would think his (fozzard) appointment was a stoopid one.

I cannot break any confidentiality usually what I know is correct I knew Smith had signed for Salford last Thursday a week before you guys, Mariano I messaged BigAL 2 week before it was announced. Certain staff at our club, put it this way were on big money for what they did ..... Players are under salary cap no more than what we have paid before. I do question the Molloy signing thats for sure. Glover did a good job whether he was blindfolded I don't no but something doesn't add up. 10 thousand against Leeds. Personal opinion I think we thought we would be ok paying big wages to staff or mates they appointed but with sponsor dropping somes not quite right etc. Unrealistic staff wages. Downfall of the Trinity. We have all been let down.

Lottery manager etc not once has he rang me to renew. I don't see the guy nothing what was he on bet it was a lot for what he did? When was the lottery promoted at the games etc. Thats where we spent beyond our means ! I am sure of it. Elston would have been on a big amount they have changed his title now and gave a more suitable wage out. Longo, Seymour they won't have been taking peanuts, cheerleader wife taking big bucks.We have all had wool pulled over our eyes all leading us down the path of we have Wakefield at heart? Maybe at first there intentions were good I believe that, but maybe we got greedy. I hope this Carter guy is ok, if he ploughed money into Wakefield why didn't he question the big wages going on. Jury is out for me and I don't no who to trust anymore very sad we deserve far better!!!

What's done is done. Would like to think that some contracts would be re negotiated for next year for non playing staff. The contracts for playing staff are already being signed. With Mariano leaving, Wilkes possibly retiring. Re-signing Ali seems a strange one as would think he was on a decent wedge, unless he has taken a big pay cut for the club. Tim already gone and if we could find a home for Mellars. These 5 players contracts would make a big dent into 400k. Or maybe i'm just dreaming?

Can we stop this salary cap thing as well.

The cap should not have any bearing on what the club spends on players until we are able to spend to the top.
It is not a target.

Neither is it evidence that the salaries are ok just because we are under it. You could still be under it by having 5 over paid players and the rest on average contracts. It is on a case by case basis as to whether the salaries are justified.

Also, when we are talking about sales and marketing people, they are not judged on the salary the retain, it is their worth comparing their salary with income received.
They can be on a million if they bring in 2 million. Again, case by case knowledge needed.
Lets not just lump every employee together on this. Some are probably better than others but unless you are in the know for all the salaries, you don't know.

In a nutshell!

Got to say it does appear to be slightly foolish to appoint Fozzard when the club are in financial difficulties.
Another point, what about all the players we've signed and then let go or are still paying off even though they aren't at the club. Their wages will have taken a massive toll out of the budget!

surprised nobody has brought up the issue of 'Paying off' players who Agar didn't want.....I know it goes back a while but it will have had a knock on effect further down the line and even into this season. I know fact that Tommy Lee got a £40k pay out and walked straight into a £60k contract at London, netting him a nice £100k total for the year....he must have been ing himself !! in between that there were a whole host of others also paid off and even into 2013....Andy Ellis had a year or two left to run on £80k he didn't just say ok I will go to Fev he took a wedge also. Vince Mellars on over £100k....who is paying him whilst on loan at Fev ? I can assure you its certainly not Fev who pay only a small portion of his pay !! Isaac John.....He got paid out after he had negotiated a nice deal back to the NRL......all the Aussies usually get houses and cars paid for by the club.....as well as business class air fares for them and the family to go back to Oz every year..........its an absolute joke !!
I would have expected Andrew Glover to have seen this as ridiculous but he too surprisingly allowed this drain to continue as he was clearly ill advised.
I bet when he looks at his bank balance now he wishes he had not bothered. I admire what he did and he has also been funding this madness to an extent, to the point where he cant do it any more
Hopefully the man at the helm now will put an end to the ridiculous way that this club (and many others) has operated in the past.
It just suprises me that the main culprits to this madness are still involved !!

I would imagine Agar+assistant will be on a decent amount aswell as they were signed by you know who?

Just trying to look at it from what players maybe going where and who is OCC at end of season. We are in a position where we have extended the contracts of players with a year left who are valuable assets. We possibly wouldn't have been so far up the creek if we had not signed Lyne, Taitau, Molloy and Fozzard. Mellars still has a year to run. So why would you re sign L.Smith and Ali when they are OCC this year. A chance to get two big salaries off the budget and with Tuson coming in.