the reason why I've said why is this pitch changeable after watching tonight's game the excess black rubber that bounced after either the ball foot or player was excessive.

the bounce by the ball was far greater than a normal run of the mill grass pitch in fact it put our defense in disarray at times and was at least to blame to some silly errors.

who's to say that they couldn't control what the pitch does by adding and removing this rubber

I still think this pitch is not of the quality and should be removed

I bet it's quite uncomphy for the players too, those black bits get everywhere!!!



I still think it must give them the advantage and shouldn't have been allowed.

That pitch takes some getting use to and is a major advantage to widnes they are like the QPR of the 80s, the bounce of the ball is so difficult to judge compared to a normal grass pitch.

I just wonder if this can be vac'd up and distributed to produce a different bounce, it looked like there was spring under foot like a trampoline

Completely agree. Good move by Agar not risking Poore with such a dodgy surface RFL get it banned.

Look at Ben Cross and Rhys Handbury now with their knee injuries Cross has just missed 5 games with knee ligament damage. Cross did it just falling hard onto the surface from the replay!
Anyway it gave Wilkes the opportunity to 'poore' some misery on Widnes and turn back the clock of his second row days running 40 yards out to score that try!

They should be forced into ripping the goddam thing up. Either that or Lee Smith should bend his back, their 1st try being an exception, crazy bounce.

what about the one that bounce over Aiton's head

Can that black stuff be inhaled... Or ingested.

Looks very dodgy to me.

Hanbury is a hamstring pull.

#ipitchgetstheblameagain

I think the OPs question is a valid one, can Widnes add or remove the volume of crumb in order to change the performance of the pitch and therefore increase their home advantage?

It's similar to football teams cutting the grass to a certain length or watering the pitch to make the pitch faster or in RL terms it's like moving the touchlines in a metre to curb an expansive teams ability go wide.

The main difference for me is the question of whether excessively adding crumb to the pitch makes players more susceptible to injury, especially players whose bodies are not physiologically adapted to playing on that kind of surface.

I doubt anybody can really answer the question as it would need to be by way of scientific study but as I said it's a valid question

I would imagine that adding more of the 'crumb' would affect the surface but I would guess that we don't doctor the pitch to negate whichever team we play against. My suggestion is that the pitch is inspected regularly and the crumb is added to manufacturers guidelines so that the recommended optimum playing surface is maintained.

we can also add the shape of the pitch as Bradford has had the corners of their pitch turned up turned up for years

its not like some clubs haven't used the size of the pitch to their advantage, at junior level, we once had encounter where the pitch was that narrow it ended up being a bruising game with one nasty injury, also I have seen the grass that long that when the ball was on the floor you could hardly see it.

I really hope we don't go down this road when we go to Newmarket

well I would guess that adding that much crumb to the playing surface it will make the ball bounce unnaturally like it did in the game,


I have never played on a surface like that one but would love to hear comments from the players that have

IMO they do change the surface, and last night it looked as the 2 ends played different. The Widnes kicking game changed in the 2nd half to cater for the difference, I dont think this was an off the cuff decision - they knew which game to play at which end.

The pitch is it self unnatural and i don't think the 'crumb' level will have that much influence on the bounce of the ball. The pitch leads to an unpredictable bounce regardless of how well it's maintained. They train on the pitch so you'd expect they would have a better insight into it just as we should at BV.

I think some of the lads had been mainlining the stuff the way the errors were coming up. I should imagine it is difficult to smoke because it will fall out of the roll up.

The 'crumb level' is a maintenance thing. Most of the time the pitch will be brushed to keep it even, but occassionally it will be topped up to allow for settlement / removal etc.

The level of the crumbs will have an effect on the bouce of the ball and, as with the effect of a divot on a grass pitch, an patch of disturbed crumb will affect the bounc also. It's not about gaining an advantage - other than understanding the nature of play.

I thought we did our homework really well and used the pitch well - we kept up a fast pace and quick ptb as much as possible - and the speed of play is vital on these surfaces.

I don't like the idea of doing away with grass - especially as how well the technology has imporved for turf over the years - but I can understand the business decision behind its use. In fairness there have been some poor examples of grass pitches in recent years as well - the Galpharm is still not great (hybrid system) and Danny Cowling tweeted recently to ask if anyone could return the grass from the Keepmoat!

Maybe i'm old fashioned but I think rugby should be played on grass, end of!

And going by the picture of Peter Foxs' knee after the game on twitter I imagine he does as well!

I've only ever played 5-a-side football on a surface like it and it does take some getting used to. It feels like you're running on a sprung surface. We were told you could wear moulded studs but I found indoor 5-a-side pimples to be a much better option as they seem to provide a lot more traction. The black rubber crumbs get everywhere!

If you listen to the sky commentary (a horrible experience I know) they do mention that the pitch had been filled in more this year which would imply that Widnes can change the 'crumb' level.

We occasionally train on an all weather pitch and its just very unpleasant for rugby, get back to grass!

Widnes added four tonnes of black crumb to the I(njury) pitch the day before playing Warrington.

Saves them money, means the pitch can be useable by many community groups. I don't see the great negative in it really.

If we had one at Newmarket, and the costs saved helped the club grow, would we be against it?

Just seems to be an easy excuse for players, fans and coaches to have a whinge at. A rugby ball bounces oddly because of it's shape.

Quite a few Widnes fans seem to be cursing it, added to that lots of injuries seem to be coming from the surface.


So yes i think i would be agianst it at Newmarket.

does anyone know why the players keep getting cut after falling on the ipitch? is it because the blades of grass are plastic which in turn is causing friction burns and cuts?

More than likely. Did you see the state of foxys knee on twitter. It was a right mess