Elliot played centre at Bradford then converted to SR I think. He was an excellent centre when I saw him.

He is an excellent SR, I did not say he wasn't?

There is still just about a difference between a SR and a real LF, though Westy is one of the few left.

Whitehead would be in my SR selection, however, I'd say Westerman is a better LF IMO.

That's just not true, I`m not sure where you get that from. Elliot always has been a second rower for as long as I can remember right from been in the academy, he debuted as a Second rower in the Bradford first team and made, his 7 appearances in his debut season were all at SR, he played the full 2010 season at SR, he filled in 3 or 4 game in 2011 at centre and that`s about it.

Have you actually seen sutton play recently.....one of stand outs for raiders

Yes but IMHO he's not better than Westerman is at the moment. Is there nothing about Trinty you like or support?

I thought he played a lot more games at centre than that, but if you say so then fine. It's no big deal regarding the main point, he's not an LF in the truest sense, though he would probably make a good fist of it, I do rate him highly.

Personally i think Wane's back 3 will be Farrell, Whitehead and Bateman at loose, but i wouldn't rule out Sutton or the excellent Morgan Knowles.

The one thing that might count in Westy's favour is his ball playing skills and that was a tactic that Wane used a lot at Wigan with O'Loughlin.

Morgan Knowles is a good shout, as is McMeeken in the form he's in right now and as a wildcard Ethan Harvard, who Wane will be well aware of thru his pie knowledge

Not to be too pessimistic or put a downer on the thread but it’s irrelevant who we play there, don’t think we have any chance of matching the Aussies, the gap for me over the last 2/3 years has just got even wider between us. A lot of NRL teams would beat our national team not taking into account their national side.

Knowles yes, McMeeken having a good season but no, not at that level.

McMeeken every day of the week for me, the complete back rower

One decent half-season? A bit to go yet.

Penalty machine, overrated and massively inconsistent, turns up when he fancies it and throws silly offloads to the floor every opportunity he gets, never really got the hype myself.

If he was anywhere near the England squad I would be surprised.

I agree. I edited my post to say that I hadn't understood when I first read your post as you were following on from another.

He's not consistent enough. He can have a good game but not often and not at international level.

Whitehead and Bateman are guaranteed. It just depends whether we have a 13 or not. Its not a terrible mistake to play Bateman there but it would be better to have him in SR with Whitehead and have an actual 13 play.
Westerman would work well but I think Wane will think he is not tested at the higher level. The form he is showing with us is partly because he has a free reign. He won't have that at International level.

I think someone like Knowles or Josh Jones will get in but if Westerman were younger, and had been on this form for longer, he'd be the better option.

Westerman appears to have been instructed to "Play his own game" for Wakefield. So whether he could respond to the demands, tactics and wishes of such a strong coach as SW and produce similar results is another matter.

I agree with knowles playing well in a good team but sutton will get a call above westerman hes playing out of his skin at minute for raiders despite team being in disarray and wane knows him well from pie days so as much as i like how westerman being playing cant see wane picking him above other contenders

Elliot being top draw for his whole raiders run
6 years in the back row I might add is the nrl

His attack and fence are both excellent
He’s the exact sort of back row that due to his handling skills can unlock the opposition defence

He’s an automatic decision for me

The question about Sutton at 13 depends on other players.
If you have enough pivots in the team you can go with a prop type 13.
If you have runners then you need someone like Farrell, O'Loughlin and Westerman.

As much as I like Westerman and has been terrific in getting our team on the front foot I’m afraid his international boat sailed some time ago . Watching the NRL on a weekly basis we will firstly need a miracle to bring the cup home ,and to have any chance at all ,we will need a team that can match the oppositions intensity for the full 80 and for me as good a ball handler that Westerman is I think his fitness/age will negate him from a starting spot . No doubt he would give his all if given the chance and wouldn’t let anyone down I’m sure ,but it’s going to get brutal trying to get a win in the later stages of the cup and I just think Wayne will go for youth over old heads .

That's so wrong and should have nothing to do with it. His age is irrelevant (youth at that level is an utter myth) and his current fitness by his own admission is the best it's ever been. You can discount him on ability, your choice but to use that as an excuse, no way.

International players should be picked on form not reputation so for that reason alone Westerman should be in the squad.
In any event, most of the player’s mentioned previously have failed to overcome the Aussies in previous encounters, so perhaps something or someone different would be worth a shot?

Give over just watch origin this morning and you or your friend tell me where he would fit in against that lot . It’s well documented about his dodgy knee cap and I think you’ll find shaun Wayne will agree with me on this one .although a decent club player he should have worked harder on the field in his youth not off the field which has also been well documented.His ship has sailed end of .

No, you give over, what's his knee got to do with it, what the Aussies target the knee now do they?

Shaun will agree with you, yeah right you know that



So no second chances in your book.

Form is form, you seem to operate under the pre-conceived mode.

SOO not yet, but SOO is not the same as Internationals. Personally on home soil, we will give them a real run for their money. I've heard the 'light years ahead' stuff for years but when playing in blighty it's not actually been the case since the 1990s. We've fallen at the final hurdle on a few occasions.

It's a confidence thing as much as anything else. We need to stop trying to be like them and be like ourselves. Westy is his own man.

Kettkat, I see what you are saying but I agree with Vasty here.

If you were a club looking at signing a player then you would definitely look at there age and injury record as it would matter, but for a one off competition that is the pinnacle of international rugby league nothing else matters other than making sure you have the best player on the pitch you possibly can, age doesn`t even come into it for me or anything else other than maybe looking at players that suit each others styles of play.

He’s a stand out player in a club that until recently couldn’t but a try but now he’s England material, I have absolutely nothing against Westerman he’s going great guns for us ,but when I put my england cap on I’m sorry I look elsewhere.
Never looked through rose tinted glasses and never will and call a spade a spade ,cracking club player not a England player now i’m afraid , but thats just my opinion and you have yours ,and that my learned friends is what this forum is all about, opinions .