Don't know mate, that's why I asked.

I think he was more commenting on how the instructions were clearly laid out for everybody.

Illy, just out of curiosity why do you feel the need to post the above ?

Are you a concerned Wakefield Fan or are you just "stirring" the brown stuff up. Also where have you seen the debt of £1.3m posted because I would not know where to find such information.

The last (and in this case first) set of financial results stated spirit of 1873 lost £1.2 million. I assume that is what the poster is referring to. These figures are readily available to the public.

Where can I see them ?

Quote ="Sandal Cat"Where can I see them ?'" you need to register on a site like this:- companycheck.co.uk/ Its usually a couple of quid per company and there is hundreds of sites to choose from.

Quote ="Sandal Cat"Where can I see them ?'" you need to register on a site like this:- companycheck.co.uk/ Its usually a couple of quid per company and there is hundreds of sites to choose from.

Quote ="Tigerade"you need to register on a site like this:- companycheck.co.uk/ Its usually a couple of quid per company and there is hundreds of sites to choose from.'" Thanks. All I can see is a figure of liabilities of £925k and a net worth of -£1.2m. It does not say who the liabilities are. It may be the bulk of the debt is to Andrew Glover himself and/or other Directors so pretty much like Castleford or any other Super League Club.

Quote ="Tigerade"you need to register on a site like this:- companycheck.co.uk/ Its usually a couple of quid per company and there is hundreds of sites to choose from.'" Thanks. All I can see is a figure of liabilities of £925k and a net worth of -£1.2m. It does not say who the liabilities are. It may be the bulk of the debt is to Andrew Glover himself and/or other Directors so pretty much like Castleford or any other Super League Club.

Just wondering, did i get slated for something less than all this

From memory the club has a 500k interest free loan from West Yorkshire Windows, which has to be paid 'when the club can afford to do so'. So whether this actually would show on the sheet i'm not sure as it doesn't class as owing within a year? Somebody with more knowledge than me of this will be able to explain better.

No, you said we could be in Administration by the end of the week which was a rumour without any hard evidence.

All I have done is quoted figures that are in the public domain to demonstrate that if our debts are owed to Andrew Glover or his Company then the situation is no different to Castleford and many other Super League Clubs who are in debt to their own Directors.

The point I'm making is that debts to your owner who is unlikely to pull the plug is different to owing money to to an aggressive creditor like HMRC who will wind you up if they are not paid.

Sorry if I was not clear in the way I put it.

You are correct. If AG has done this it would show on the P&L sheet as "directors loans". The net worth of minus (-) £1.2m is the worrying bit.

I don't know how well qualified you are as an accountant Tigerade but, analysing accounts is a job for the experts.
For example are the new stands a straight forward cost or capital investment ?

Investment because they can be taken down and re-used elsewhere.

But doesn't net worth take into account "directors loans". Hypothetically if AG or WYW had loaned Spirit of 1873 of £1m then the Clubs net worth would only be -£200,000.

The point I'm making is that no one as far as I'm aware knows the exact position we are in but we seem to have "doom and gloom" on this Board. AG has said times are tough. We lost Eric France's sponsorship and have not had a decent home game for ages so cash flow will be a problem.

We should have a bumper crowd on Friday and then the following Sunday we are at home to Bradford so we have 2 good pay days coming up plus the Season Ticket offer to existing members all of which should go hell of a long way to ironing out our cash flow issues.

Of course people have a right to ask questions of the Club but I would hope that Wakefield Fans would get behind the Club because if we don't we'll have no Club to get behind.

Depends how it is shown on the balance sheet and only shareholders are privvy to this information. Also depends on which accountancy firm you use to draw up the yearly figures. Some can be "massaged" into other items and have to questioned - this is usually done at the AGM but I don't think WTW have shareholders to deliver this to anyway.

The club has taken a massive blow with Eric France sponsorship going - very similar to Cas Tigers not getting the cash from Probiz a couple of years ago. The next 2 home games will bring in much needed CHC. I would be worried about the season ticket offer though. During November and December most SL clubs rely on this as the only income stream.

Clearly not everybody

It may be an issue but hopefully that's where money from Sponsors comes it and the sale of season tickets to those who have not taken up the offer and new members.

Quote ="Sandal Cat"It may be an issue but hopefully that's where money from Sponsors comes it and the sale of season tickets to those who have not taken up the offer and new members.'" True - Bradford are also doing the offer here :- www.bradfordbulls.co.uk/tickets/paymentplan

Quote ="Sandal Cat"It may be an issue but hopefully that's where money from Sponsors comes it and the sale of season tickets to those who have not taken up the offer and new members.'" True - Bradford are also doing the offer here :- www.bradfordbulls.co.uk/tickets/paymentplan

In basic terms the accounts are quite hard to interpret because the Company has filed abbreviated accounts (much like the majority of small businesses in the UK). As mentioned the only people who will know the full picture will be the shareholders who will, under companies act receive full set of statutory accounts. These are presented at the companies AGM at which point they are approved by the directors.

Looking at what info is there the Company made a loss last year of roughly £1.2m – given the low value of the companies fixed assets you have have to conclude that the new stands were expensed via the Profit and loss account. Probably on the basis that the improvements were deemed as repairs and therefore required to bring the stadium into proper repair to carry out the trade of the business.

In terms of the balance sheet – the company has very little in the way of actual assets but has a number of significant loans, which will be shown as liabilities thus resulting in the £1.2m net liability position mentioned. The company has £925k of liabilities due during the year and £444k of liabilities due in greater than one year.

The company owes West Yorkshire Windows £450k which for all intense and purposes is the amount due greater than one year i.e. payable when it can. However that means that at last year end somewhere along the way the Club owe an independent third part almost £1m.

The accounts don’t contain any detail on this at all but you would have to assume that this is costs for the stadium repair awaiting payment and then say a few hundred thousand to other creditors – probably HMR&C and salaries timing dependant.

As an accountant you need to know more about what’s in the short term creditor to determine if you’re in a mess. Part of the net liabilities position comes from not putting the stadia costs on the balance sheet put through the P&L accounts.

The concern would be the cash figure of only £1500 as this won’t pay the debts and its either the Chairman or the bank who are going to have to stump up the cash to get the liabilities paid down.

But like you say those accounts are 18 months old now and you are still going so that has probably been sorted out by now.

HEY BUZZ OFF! There's no place for optimism on this forum.

Hi I am neither trying to stir the brown stuff or a Wakefield fan. But there is so much doom and gloom on here that is not really warranted. The accounts on Public record are out dated and first year trading only. AG has loaned the company money ( I presume £444,627) and I doubt he wants to fold the club and start again. These figures are from your accounts:

Balance Sheet

Total Fixed/Non Current Assets 63,659
Total Current Assets 100,056
Total Current Liabilities 925,483
Total Long Term Liabilities 444,627
Total Provisions 0
Total Net Worth (excludes intangible fixed assets) Minus -1,206,395

Indicators

Debtors 58,618
Trade Debtors (if disclosed) - - -
Working Capital - - Minus -825,427

I think they would be well advised to file new accounts as soon as possible and not leave it until November.

Cheer up.

First Winding Up petetion due to be heard today from 1400 onwards. I assume from the new deal Kirmond has just signed that the club are confident its going to be resolved.

"creditors and as such HMRC will advertise a winding up petition on the 11th July. This debt will be repaid before any action and we had hoped they would accept our payment terms without advertising the information." www.wakefieldwildcats.co.uk/news ... a/2013/07/ These threads are getting tedious - surely it's time for this to be locked?

"creditors and as such HMRC will advertise a winding up petition on the 11th July. This debt will be repaid before any action and we had hoped they would accept our payment terms without advertising the information." www.wakefieldwildcats.co.uk/news ... a/2013/07/ These threads are getting tedious - surely it's time for this to be locked?

Quote ="RDM""creditors and as such HMRC will advertise a winding up petition on the 11th July. This debt will be repaid before any action and we had hoped they would accept our payment terms without advertising the information." www.wakefieldwildcats.co.uk/news ... a/2013/07/ These threads are getting tedious - surely it's time for this to be locked?'" ... and the Macron one?

Quote ="RDM""creditors and as such HMRC will advertise a winding up petition on the 11th July. This debt will be repaid before any action and we had hoped they would accept our payment terms without advertising the information." www.wakefieldwildcats.co.uk/news ... a/2013/07/ These threads are getting tedious - surely it's time for this to be locked?'" ... and the Macron one?