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| TBH i am now of the belief that, had the RFL helped us, we would probably be in as good a position now as we are, the changes have come as a direct result of a fresh start, and that may not have come if help had been provided.
That does not take away the question for RL in general as to why the RFL act without parity to their member clubs, all of which deserve the same respect and level playing field.
As ever the question will never be answered and we will be stuck with these morons running the game, because they are untouchable, and certainly nobody in the media, certainly not SKYs Wallace and Grommit, (their licensing questioning was absolutely embarrassing!!) can ever get a straight answer from the RFL dictats.
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| Quote ="Starbug"Read adeybulls post , this is nothing to do with Odsal , that was just the usual RFL spin ,this is a loan to the Bulls to keep them in business, plain and simple'"
Yeah, I realise that this was spin, its just disappointing that, in the modern world, nobody tells it as it is.
The one sure thing is that situations like this one never come from a position of financial strength.
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| Quote ="Adeybull"Wrong.
We paid a peppercorn to the council.
We will pay a commercial rent to the RFL.
In exchange for that additional annual cost, we get a sum up front. Bit like equity release on your house.
Where is the subsidy in that? (clue: nowhere).'"
So who now pays for the upkeep of the stadium?
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| Quote ="Adeybull"Wrong.
We paid a peppercorn to the council.
We will pay a commercial rent to the RFL.
In exchange for that additional annual cost, we get a sum up front. Bit like equity release on your house.
Where is the subsidy in that? (clue: nowhere).'"
Not quite like equity release, in that you dont have "equity" in Odsal, unless of course the long lease was considered as equity !
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| Quote ="wrencat1873"Not quite like equity release, in that you dont have "equity" in Odsal, unless of course the long lease was considered as equity !'"
Pretty well as good as - as anyone (especially in London) who "owns" a house that is actually on a very long leasehold will tell you.
But a better analogy would be a normal commercial property "sale and leaseback" - for that is pecisely what we appear to have done. Sold (effectively) our interest in a very long lease, and leased back on a much shorter (we presume) lease.
As for who pays the maintenance? Given we have received a big capital sum up front, I am assuming we still do. Unless the amount of the possible sum has been reduced by the NPV of future maintemance costs that the RFL have taken on. Simple answer is we are not yet clear. But I am sure the capital sum will have reflected whatever has been agreed in this respect.
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| Quote ="Adeybull"Wrong.
We paid a peppercorn to the council.
We will pay a commercial rent to the RFL.
In exchange for that additional annual cost, we get a sum up front. Bit like equity release on your house.
Where is the subsidy in that? (clue: nowhere).'"
Course you will, I'm sure the RFL will ensure that you pay a "commercial rent" on Odsal.
As I said before, no issue with Bradford, the issue is with the double standards of the games governing body.
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| Quote ="fat faced fan"they were dead quick to help us out last year were they not......? oh yeah, not.
well done to bradford on securing thier next 20 year licence.'"
The RFL were dead quick to let you in Superleague in the first place because your ground didn't meet the basic criteria when you beat Featherstone. They've let you continue in Superleague including the first round of licensing despite you not having made the required improvements. They even let you stay in Superleague at the last licensing round despite still not having made the ground improvements and starting as a new entity all together.
The double standards and favouritism shown towards Wakefield by the RFL is a joke!
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| Quote ="Adeybull"Wrong.
We paid a peppercorn to the council.
We will pay a commercial rent to the RFL.
In exchange for that additional annual cost, we get a sum up front. Bit like equity release on your house.
Where is the subsidy in that? (clue: nowhere).'"
So what saying is you could not afford to pay Peppercorn to council, but can affrord to pay Commercial rent, so why sell lease, sorry no Bradford game for me, and I will not be watching any other game that is played there, the is my own choice...
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| Quote ="Maccbull_BigBullyBooaza"The RFL were dead quick to let you in Superleague in the first place because your ground didn't meet the basic criteria when you beat Featherstone. They've let you continue in Superleague including the first round of licensing despite you not having made the required improvements. They even let you stay in Superleague at the last licensing round despite still not having made the ground improvements and starting as a new entity all together.
The double standards and favouritism shown towards Wakefield by the RFL is a joke!'"
Wrong, we had to fight tooth and nail to be let in. We did our first season (or two - I can't remember) without SKY money that everyone else had.
We have improved Belle Vue over the years, to comply with standards. The standards have been changed!
As for licensing we were not the only club that they let get away with this were we??
No need to get all defensive, your club appear to have done a good deal. The RFL however seem to have not done quite such a good deal but as they appear to be above the law and don't disclose anything they don't want to to the fans of our game I guess we'll never know for sure will we?
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| just managed to catch up with this, and it stinks.
bradford have negotiated themselves a good deal and fair play to them on that, but it unfortuneatly means that there will be no fair play when the next set of licences comes around. bradford will be safer than leeds, warrington and wigan!!
if us and cas both built our grounds in time for the next franchises, then the worst ground in the league would be odsal (then maybe hull kr) and if, as previous applications have gone, if you haven't had a good ground, then you are favourites for the drop - but this will now not happen.
maybe next franchises will score an additional 20 points if they are more than 5 miles away from normanton!!!
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| Quote ="Maccbull_BigBullyBooaza"The RFL were dead quick to let you in Superleague in the first place because your ground didn't meet the basic criteria when you beat Featherstone. They've let you continue in Superleague including the first round of licensing despite you not having made the required improvements. They even let you stay in Superleague at the last licensing round despite still not having made the ground improvements and starting as a new entity all together.
The double standards and favouritism shown towards Wakefield by the RFL is a joke!'"
I think you may be talking some bull**** here. With the deal that was announced yesterday you lose any possible moral high ground.
As Bradford already had a long lease arrangement, Odsal could not be sold elsewhere for development.
The reality is that we are all in difficult ecconomic times and fair play, the people involved with the Bulls have certainly managed to
do some excellent business.
The league would be a poorer place without the Bulls and again credit where its due, your supporter numbers are excellent, but please dont
come on here and justify whats happened by spouting rubbish.
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| The RFL think we are all thick, the line about saving a historic ground in Odsal is so crap and transparent that I'm actually insulted by it.
Then we get to the compromised position that the RFL have created with regards to franchising, wtf, how can the next round be seen as fair?
IMO, this franchise period should be the last and P & R with knobs on brought back in 2014/15.
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| The point here is the "who" is involved.
No one would be even blinking at this if Bradford had got a loan from a bank, or got investment from private companies.
The fact that they have done a deal with the rugby league just raises the question of why were they singled out as more worthy that the rest.
In terms of benefits and advantage, it's hard to say without knowing the numbers involved.
The RFL could have made a shrewd deal themselves if they make money on the rent like any other landlord would (or interest if we call it a loan). Depends on the figures.
Bradford have gained. Not so much because they are guarenteed a franchise, which I know is an emotive subject but they will still have the same criteria to meet, but because they have been financially helped.
If they needed to stay at Odsal and needed to buy the lease to guarentee it, they would need to raise funds to do it. They could have sold some players for fees or reduced their wage bill. I don't know the amounts we are talking about of course so I don't know how close that would make it but they have a decent Super League team of some value. If they played with the team Wakefield played with last year their bill would be massively reduced, and so could fund their own issues.
They haven't done that. They have had funds made available because the RFL have taken the short term financial hit for them and they pay back over a longer period, releasing cash for players.
How life would have been different for Wakefield if we could have released funds for players in the passed.
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| Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Has anyone actually read all the information on this, all this does is secures Odsal for the Bulls to continue playing there in the forseeable future, it does NOT guarantee super league status !!!
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| Quote ="pulsator2k7"Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Has anyone actually read all the information on this, all this does is secures Odsal for the Bulls to continue playing there in the forseeable future, it does NOT guarantee super league status !!!
'"
Are you for real ? So the RFL secure playing at Odsal for the Bulls. Do you really think that the Bulls will ever be relegated with this kind of deal in place. Bearing in mind this could cause them to default on rental payments .
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| Quote ="Khlav Kalash"Do the RFL still own Keighley's ground? I know they bought it a while back to help the club. So maybe the offer would've extended to Belle Vue had the BOI looked to have offloaded to an unsympathetic developer immediately after Tillion(?) defaulted on the loan'"
Just to clarify:
The RFL do not own Keighley Cougars ground they own a 60 year lease which, in turn, Keighley let off them (at no cost to the RFL as far as I am aware).
This came about at the end of the last lease when the RFL helped Keighley negotiate with the land owner (the CO-Op) to prevent any chance of the land being sold from under them for retail development.
Keighley did not sell their lease to the RFL like Bradford appear to have done.
Keighley originally owned the ground and much of the surrounding land but had to sell it many moons ago to the Co-op then lease it back.
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| Quote ="wrencat1873"Are you for real ? So the RFL secure playing at Odsal. Do you really think that the Bulls will evev be relegated with this kind of deal in place. Bearing in mind this could cause them to default on rental payments .
'"
Grow up.
The RFL could chuck Bulls out of SL, and bring in another franchisee to Odsal. Maybe even you lot, if your stadium plans get shafted again.
Different tenant, same rent (if not more). What IS your problem?
Don't forget, the RFL could very easily have chucked you guys out of SL and brought Halifax in in your place. Indeed, Halifax fans detest the RFL with a passion for showing you such blatant favouritism and ensuring that you would not be relegated.
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| Its a poor explanation from the RFL, it leaves many questions.
And with the that it leaves it open to fans to get carried away and jump in with both feet, better to wait untill the questions are answered imo.
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| Quote ="Adeybull"Grow up.
The RFL could chuck Bulls out of SL, and bring in another franchisee to Odsal. Maybe even you lot, if your stadium plans get shafted again.
Different tenant, same rent (if not more). What IS your problem?
Don't forget, the RFL could very easily have chucked you guys out of SL and brought Halifax in in your place. Indeed, Halifax fans detest the RFL with a passion for showing you such blatant favouritism and ensuring that you would not be relegated.'"
Your comments are going even further off the scale mate.
Heres a simple question for you.
Are the RFL more or less likely to favour a team that they have loaned money to (or bought out a lease) ? simple answer, more or less ?
By the way, as stated earlier i've nothing whatsoever against the Bulls, just a little surprised by certain comments.
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| Quote ="pulsator2k7"Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Has anyone actually read all the information on this, all this does is secures Odsal for the Bulls to continue playing there in the forseeable future, it does NOT guarantee super league status !!!
'"
Lazy posting Pulsator. You've copied this to the other forums talking about it. You are not answering the points made, just blanket patronising defense. Booo!
Anyway, it is quite indicative of why this is an issue that the clubs who are secure and have a nice stadium are not really talking about this. The ones who need the money, or needed it the past are rattling through pages of comments.
You have been favoured. Good for you. Not good for anyone else.
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| Quote ="Adeybull"Grow up.
The RFL could chuck Bulls out of SL, and bring in another franchisee to Odsal. Maybe even you lot, if your stadium plans get shafted again.
Different tenant, same rent (if not more). What IS your problem?
Don't forget, the RFL could very easily have chucked you guys out of SL and brought Halifax in in your place. Indeed, Halifax fans detest the RFL with a passion for showing you such blatant favouritism and ensuring that you would not be relegated.'"
Wrong in every way!
What possible benefit would there be for the RFL to chuck the Bulls out now!
If the Bradford Bulls can't create a profitable business plan that sustains a SL franchise what chance would a cookoo club have, that's just pure fantasy, get real!
Only if you believe the media spin that preceded and followed the franchise announcement, the reality was very different!
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| Quote ="Adeybull"Grow up.
The RFL could chuck Bulls out of SL, and bring in another franchisee to Odsal. Maybe even you lot, if your stadium plans get shafted again.
Different tenant, same rent (if not more). What IS your problem?
Don't forget, the RFL could very easily have chucked you guys out of SL and brought Halifax in in your place. Indeed, Halifax fans detest the RFL with a passion for showing you such blatant favouritism and ensuring that you would not be relegated.'"
Many, many years ago Bradford Northern were in extreme difficulties and Wakefield loaned them players to help them get out of the mess they were in. Bradford could have ceased to exist then but for the help and support of others.
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| Quote ="pulsator2k7"Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Has anyone actually read all the information on this, all this does is secures Odsal for the Bulls to continue playing there in the forseeable future, it does NOT guarantee super league status !!!
'"
Secures Odsal for the Bulls to continue with their long lease that they had and therefore could not have been kicked out anyway?????????????
At least do us the courtesy of not assuming we are all stupid and will believe the RFL who appear to contradict themselves anyway in the statements they have given.
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| Quote ="Adeybull"Grow up.
The RFL could chuck Bulls out of SL, and bring in another franchisee to Odsal. Maybe even you lot, if your stadium plans get shafted again.
Different tenant, same rent (if not more). What IS your problem?
Don't forget, the RFL could very easily have chucked you guys out of SL and brought Halifax in in your place. Indeed, Halifax fans detest the RFL with a passion for showing you such blatant favouritism and ensuring that you would not be relegated.'"
If you really believe that then you're as dumb as the Halifax fans. We were favoured over Halifax despite everything because even with the RFL guiding them through the entire process and helping them on several occasions they could not put together a decent application. I am led to believe they have only themselves to blame for missing out but it's not in their interest to believe that is it???
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