Don't even joke about it! its embarrassing for 99.99% of us Trinity supporters

I get some forms of racism and xenaphobia - don't agree with it but I see the twisted logic.

In the current climate you can see where it's easy to whip up anti Muslim feeling. In the same way you can see how extremist Muslim clerics whip up anti Christian feeling. It's a two way street I'm afraid.

But anti semitism especially in this country remains a mystery. We share half a religion. We look pretty much the same and share a common culture.

Being a racist of any creed is tedious enough but to bring it down to this level is perverse.

I know RL like football it's meant to be partisan - but only relative to which shirt you wear. It's not meant to be real ffs, it's just a bit of escapism.

This kind of extreme attitude is what ruined football. Worse stil it invites in the finger wagging liberal puritans who will make it their mission to be outraged. In fact there are a fair few already infesting these forums.

So reluctantly I to say grass them up. I don't want to watch a game without plenty of earthy banter between fans but that's what will sadly happen if we don't occasionally weed out the real bad apples.

Earthy banter is good for sport, racism/anti semitism/ homophobia etc have no place in our sport, or any sport for that matter.

That would be what I said

Speak for yourself - I don't share any half of any religion, and it always strikes me that a significant amount of strife and division amongst human beings would be gone in a puff of logic if we were to finally grow up as a civilisation and consign all religion to the age of ignorance, where it came from, and still belongs.

But still - until that happy time, we don't want an anti-Semite pensioner running amok on the terraces of BV.

Get ff your big red liberal horse Bren



I meant in a historical sense. I'm not religious but I'm fairly sure my ancestors were!

It's my second favourite pet subject. I'm a devotee of Christopher Hitchens - not just atheist, but antitheist; in my view it's the enemy of science and reason, and retards us a civilisation.

But I get your context - historically, we're a christian country; thankfully, that's on the wane - in 2016, for the first time ever, more people in the UK declared themselves to be of no religion than to be christian.

It's hard to explain racism without sounding racist but in answer to the question of racism against Jews...... a lot of it comes from the unfortunate historic fact they were persecuted in their homelands, making the immigrants in many countries.
When the likes of Russia and Germany had extreme right or left wing leaders they used the Jews to focus on to imply a purer country of origin. When they settled in America they often made a success especially in finance so were petsecuted for that perceived privilege.

In Charles Dickens day the bad guy or the cheat was often a Jewish....like Fagin.

And in relation to Leeds there has always been a Jewish community there and a successful one at that.
Bigots seem to latch on to things like that and just keep it going when in fact there is no substance to it......and not even any recent history to it either.

I've never understood any racism even though I was brought up in the seventies. Looking back some of the normal everyday language and attitudes of that time seem unbelievable.

I was a teenager/young guy in the late 60's and 70's and can assure you many of us were not then and are not now racist. In fact it was my generation that heavily promoted peace, equality and stood up
against bigotry. My father's generation were often racist. That came from pure ignorance in the true sense as many of their generation had not even conversed with or certainly never shook the hand of someone coloured.

As a 17yr old I went to big bad London for RAR gigs at Victoria park and Finsbury Park, scary times but thousands upon thousands made the effort to stick two fingers up to the NF.

You can tell how much we have changed from the 70s with some of the TV programmes back then, I cannot see Love Thy Neighbour being made now

You don't have to go back that far. Even some of the 1980s episodes of Only Fools and Horses had a few lines you couldn't get away with now.

True that. I watched open all hours the other night, when an Asian shop owner came in, and said "I'm gupta" and arkwright replied "I'm sorry to hear that".

I dunno, I think it's hard to know where the line is sometimes.

You watch a film like blazing saddles and it appears incredibly racist upon first glance, when actually it's mocking the ignorance and backwardness of Midwestern Americans.

I think a lot of the time it's not the words you use, it's the context that they're said in. You know when someone is using it as a way of degrading someone. Which FOR ME is where the line is. But I'd never risk offending someone in that way, of course.

Excuse the pun but life tends not to be black and white.

What the outraged of Britain often forget is that there are always great areas of life that you just can't legislate for - if you tried you may as well kiss freedom of speech goodbye.

There is out and out racism that should be obvious to all and immediately slapped down.

Then there is the Ronnie Barker gag, which I suspect would only upset one in a thousand asian people if that. Whether you laugh at that particular gag is up to you and no one else - not one of his best but hardly what I'd call offensive,

You actually get edited versions of Tom & Jerry Cartoons DVDs now unless you specifically order the original unedited versions.

Just googled xxxxTom &Jerry, I've never seen this version before.

Yes it's called re-writing history I believe the Nazi's were spot on at it. Sometimes I find the similarities between the Liberal PC brigade and the Brown Shirts a touch concerning.

It's only cartoons for now, but where does it stop - they used to laugh at that absurd little Austrian corporal at first.

For me history is sacred and must never be messed with - to do so is the ultimate betrayal of the truth.

And later than that - I had a touch of frost binge a few years ago and there were episodes from the mid nineties where he constantly referred to his black colleague as a "Black Berkshire"

Ignoring Vasty's attempt to invoke Godwin's Law on this thread - I have no problem with editing a cartoon that was much loved and is still fun - to remove some of the less socially or culturally enlightened content; there are plenty of things that were acceptable in bygone days that no longer are, due to the progressive nature of social attitudes.

I have a real problem with the anti PC brigade - who will often cite things like this, followed by the tired old cliché - "it's political correctness - gone maaaad!" then roll their eyes. Granted there are always examples that outraged Daily Mail headline writers can use to lament the loss of free speech - but I think those few cases where people get it wrong with good intentions, are a small price to pay to put an end to the everyday, institutionalised racism and discrimination that was the norm as recently as the 70's - which I remember - because I was there.

PC is actually an attempt to be nicer - and that seems alright to me.

Exactly Bren.
Being nicer is not the same as censorship.
Certainly in the spirit of what they are doing.

I guess the problem is where you draw the line.
It is important to remember history the way it was.

I'm comfortable with the line being drawn quite a long way away from taking sambo out of a few episodes of Tom and Jerry.

So should I hide the original versions of Tom & Jerry DVDs and Noddy Books from todays youngsters?

We buy bevel gearboxes in from India to convert our valves for the petro chemical industries and the trade name cast on the gearbox is "SAMBO".

It's really impossible to find a summary that everyone can agree with really isn't it. You look at comedians, such as Chris Rock, or Chris Tucker.... About 95% of their material is based on black culture and history.

I find that, personally, I get along with people much better who are so comfortable with modern day society and their own culture to the extent that they can allude to a lighter side of it.

It is just a shame (or, maybe it isn't....) that we live in a world where different communities are so wildly differemt in their development. Ignorance will unfortunately always be a variable.

As for racism at rugby league matches, I really had thought we'd outgrown it all.

What staggers me is how much hatred is spewed for fans of other teams. Not only that, just how deep set and unrelenting it is. It's only a very small minority, at every club, but it really does stagger me.

As a cas fan I don't hold any hatred for anything Wakefield related. I enjoy the rivalry and the banter and rugby for me wouldn't be the same without it. Racism or otherwise, spewing abuse at each other just isn't necessary between any sets of fans IMO

I agree wholeheartedly with the Rugby sentiment Dave.
Love beating Cas and I don't like Wigan style or coach at the moment but that's pretty much the limit.
The 'banter' with fans is limited to people I know or the occasional wag at the game but only in fun. Can't understand people who treat a sporting team or their fans like they have wronged them or their family in some way.
It's just a game.