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| Quote ="DAVE@CAS1990"I remember saying this to you in February time - Newmarket being a no-go and BV being developed. I just didn't expect it to take so long to be announced.
To me it's a no brainer - the infrastructure is there already at BV, and if YorkCourt are involved with a similar sum of money, then BV can be developed considerably quicker, cheaper and easier, without disrupting the half-assed fans who wouldn't go to Newmarket.
This to me seems like a positive for the club - don't forget, the Newmarket stadium does not exist, so you've not lost anything
 '"
Thats all very well, but how will this affect the merger of Wakey and Cas that the whole Rugby League world has been obsessed in ? |
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| Quote ="Smew"Thats all very well, but how will this affect the merger of Wakey and Cas that the whole Rugby League world has been obsessed in ?'"
Unless your being ironic and i've missed it - the RL world hasn't been obsessing about this for a while.
I would argue you are the first poster to mention it in quite a while.
Just saying. |
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The words I used 3 years ago were Trojan Horse and now it comes to pass. No community Facilities for the people of Outwood etc. It is time that you see that people like TRB will bend to anybodies tune as long as it keeps him in the Lime light on his crusade.
He has done YC s dirty work for them. Running round with the petition turning up on mass to "local" Public consultations muddying real public opinion.
I hope your proud of yourself now because of people like you a community will have to live on the doorstep of this monstrosity with no benefit to them.
Very sad indeed and all because he likes a bit of attention. Him and IA still telling you to trust them and not to upset YC.
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Was the fact that wakefield needed a NEW stadium not a "exceptional circumstance" that was used to give the rest of the application weight?
If it was I would expect the people who objected to re surface along with the local communities to seek clarification.
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| Quote ="rugfbyball2323"Was the fact that wakefield needed a NEW stadium not a "exceptional circumstance" that was used to give the rest of the application weight?
If it was I would expect the people who objected to re surface along with the local communities to seek clarification.'"
They have by the sound of it.  |
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| Quote ="rugfbyball2323"The words I used 3 years ago were Trojan Horse and now it comes to pass. No community Facilities for the people of Outwood etc. It is time that you see that people like TRB will bend to anybodies tune as long as it keeps him in the Lime light on his crusade.
He has done YC s dirty work for them. Running round with the petition turning up on mass to "local" Public consultations muddying real public opinion.
I hope your proud of yourself now because of people like you a community will have to live on the doorstep of this monstrosity with no benefit to them.
Very sad indeed and all because he likes a bit of attention. Him and IA still telling you to trust them and not to upset YC.'"
Deary me  |
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| Quote ="rugfbyball2323"Was the fact that wakefield needed a NEW stadium not a "exceptional circumstance" that was used to give the rest of the application weight?
If it was I would expect the people who objected to re surface along with the local communities to seek clarification.'"
Can't even spell rugby!!
0/10
Yawn!!!! |
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| Quote ="rugfbyball2323"The words I used 3 years ago were Trojan Horse and now it comes to pass. No community Facilities for the people of Outwood etc. It is time that you see that people like TRB will bend to anybodies tune as long as it keeps him in the Lime light on his crusade.
He has done YC s dirty work for them. Running round with the petition turning up on mass to "local" Public consultations muddying real public opinion.
I hope your proud of yourself now because of people like you a community will have to live on the doorstep of this monstrosity with no benefit to them.
Very sad indeed and all because he likes a bit of attention. Him and IA still telling you to trust them and not to upset YC.'"
Who says no community facilities at Newmarket? Let me guess, you support a local club and you are hating the fact a Wakefield Community stadium might be getting built quicker than expected and will therefore benefit the famous a Wakefield Trinity. |
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He/she can't spell rugby so I doubt they are little more than a general objector.
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I have been mulling this over for a few days now...
And in black and white terms here's how I see it.
The developers at Newmarket used the club and it's loyal fans to get planning permission for a huge money making venture. All along knowing that they could slip in a get out clause they could use if nobody noticed... Nobody noticed and they did put it in and are using it!
We as a club and it's fans steamrollered the local community opinion in the genuine desire to support the club in its need for a new ground and the broader community in the provision of fantastic sports facilities amongst the industry. Within this we pressured the planners until it was supported and eventually passed.
Because of the contractual clause the developers are now proposing to buy and redevelop a crumbling ground in a slum area of the city... We are now proposing to abandon our original principals, turn away from the affected community, let the developers make more by developing the proposed sports facilities in industrial units.
I think I would rather Trinity played forever in a crap heap than get Bellevue redeveloped under those terms...
The 'what's in it for me' and 'I'm alright jack' attitude of society today really makes me sick.
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| Quote ="Old Blighty"I have been mulling this over for a few days now...
And in black and white terms here's how I see it.
The developers at Newmarket used the club and it's loyal fans to get planning permission for a huge money making venture. All along knowing that they could slip in a get out clause they could use if nobody noticed... Nobody noticed and they did put it in and are using it!
We as a club and it's fans steamrollered the local community opinion in the genuine desire to support the club in its need for a new ground and the broader community in the provision of fantastic sports facilities amongst the industry. Within this we pressured the planners until it was supported and eventually passed.
Because of the contractual clause the developers are now proposing to buy and redevelop a crumbling ground in a slum area of the city... We are now proposing to abandon our original principals, turn away from the affected community, let the developers make more by developing the proposed sports facilities in industrial units.
I think I would rather Trinity played forever in a crap heap than get Bellevue redeveloped under those terms...
The 'what's in it for me' and 'I'm alright jack' attitude of society today really makes me sick.'"
Well I'm in for all I can get - for me, my club and my City. I have nothing personal to gain, other than the pride of being involved in securing better facilities for our club. We may not be getting what we sought, but we would have killed for what is being planned for BV 10 years ago, and I think it could work just as well now.
We are not abandoning the community at NM, in fact we are fighting to get the community element installed there, so they will get that,without having the hassle of being log-jammed once a fortnight!
I font know if YC planned it this way, but this is how it's ended up and we are working with the club and everyone else involved to make the best of it.
The plans are good, and we will be better off for our adventures. I feel no shame in that! |
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| Quote ="Old Blighty"I have been mulling this over for a few days now...
And in black and white terms here's how I see it.
The developers at Newmarket used the club and it's loyal fans to get planning permission for a huge money making venture. All along knowing that they could slip in a get out clause they could use if nobody noticed... Nobody noticed and they did put it in and are using it!
We as a club and it's fans steamrollered the local community opinion in the genuine desire to support the club in its need for a new ground and the broader community in the provision of fantastic sports facilities amongst the industry. Within this we pressured the planners until it was supported and eventually passed.
Because of the contractual clause the developers are now proposing to buy and redevelop a crumbling ground in a slum area of the city... We are now proposing to abandon our original principals, turn away from the affected community, let the developers make more by developing the proposed sports facilities in industrial units.
=#FF0000I think I would rather Trinity played forever in a crap heap than get Bellevue redeveloped under those terms... The 'what's in it for me' and 'I'm alright jack' attitude of society today really makes me sick.'" bet the fans in the surrounding area will love your comments and you base this while you live half way around the world in Sydney  you can't make this up
I'm sorry but it does sound very snobbish |
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It survival of the fittest out there and we need to do what we can to get the best option for a quality stadium in Wakefield. Looks like that option is to redevelop Belle Vue and I'm looking forward to see what's planned. MC said on Radio leeds yesterday if we redeveloped we'd start East stand first then onto the western terrace, total redevelopment in stages without having to move out. I'm sure he did also say both options are still open NM and BV
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| Quote ="snowie"bet the fans in the surrounding area will love your comments and you base this while you live half way around the world in Sydney
you can't make this up
I'm sorry but it does sound very snobbish'"
Not from where i'm stood. And I take it as him referring to the stadium itself. |
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How longs this proposed Newmarket venture going to go on for. I don't think this is ever gonna come to light, not in the near future anyway.
Even the club have realised this so have come up with plan B and had the idea of redeveloping Belle Vue.
I know which id prefer if I was a wakey fan, cant beat a traditional style ground for rugby league, these new stadiums look the part but lack the atmosphere of grounds of old.
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| Quote ="Schunter"Not from where i'm stood. And I take it as him referring to the stadium itself.'"
I must admit I could imagine a jewel of a ground in Belle Vue but then I wasn't expecting much more than steel and breeze blocks at Newmarket similar to the giants ground |
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| Quote ="ChrisRover"How longs this proposed Newmarket venture going to go on for. I don't think this is ever gonna come to light, not in the near future anyway.
Even the club have realised this so have come up with plan B and had the idea of redeveloping Belle Vue.
I know which id prefer if I was a wakey fan, cant beat a traditional style ground for rugby league, these new stadiums look the part but lack the atmosphere of grounds of old.'" Belle Vue for me can't tear my heart away from it |
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| Quote ="snowie"bet the fans in the surrounding area will love your comments and you base this while you live half way around the world in Sydney
you can't make this up
I'm sorry but it does sound very snobbish'"
I lived 2 streets away from the ground for the first 9 years of my marriage... and it is a slum area! I am not judging the people or why they live there.. needs must!!
this could spark a Headingly like revival of the surrounding streets ... |
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| Quote ="Old Blighty"I lived 2 streets away from the ground for the first 9 years of my marriage... and it is a slum area!'"
not arguing that the area is run down, but why not re develop Belle Vue |
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| Quote ="TRB"Well I'm in for all I can get - for me, my club and my City. I have nothing personal to gain, other than the pride of being involved in securing better facilities for our club. We may not be getting what we sought, but we would have killed for what is being planned for BV 10 years ago, and I think it could work just as well now.
We are not abandoning the community at NM, in fact we are fighting to get the community element installed there, so they will get that,=#FF0000without having the hassle of being log-jammed once a fortnight!
I font know if YC planned it this way, but this is how it's ended up and we are working with the club and everyone else involved to make the best of it.
The plans are good, and we will be better off for our adventures. I feel no shame in that!'"
I more or less agree with every thing else you say but at the time of the PI i think they were being re-assured that there wouldn't be any congestion. |
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| Quote ="Old Blighty"I lived 2 streets away from the ground for the first 9 years of my marriage... and it is a slum area! I am not judging the people or why they live there.. needs must!!
this could spark a Headingly like revival of the surrounding streets ...'"
Headingly like revival ? yeah, bring on the multiple occupancy student lets. |
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| Quote ="newgroundb4wakey"Take all the other arguments away from it, the s106, the PI, the ownership of BV or NM, the previous regimes mistakes or misadministration. If you truly have red, white and blue running through your veins would you rather gaze at that rectangle of green that all the trin greats have graced over the years or would you rather step into the unknown of NM. If they could devise some sort of scheme to compensate the residents near NM this BV scheme sounds the best option by far in the opinion of a genuine neutral Cas fan.
'"
I take your point and it is an idealistic view... my worry is that we (as a club and fans) have been manipulated and, although we now find ourselves in a position of potential benefit... the acceptance of that benefit is very likely to dissadvantage or hurt another area of the community.
I honour people like TRB and his compadres, as I do to the guys who are working their socks off at the ground now.... and others who slave tirelessly and quietly in the background... they have acted and act with genuine integrity and fortitude throughout... unlike some of the hangers on who have resurfaced with evangelistic zeal since the agenda changed.
If a community sports facility is still planned and will be a part of the NM development, then I stand down and recind my argument.
but at the moment it seems to me that our gain will be at the significant detriment of others, and that is unacceptable. |
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Quote ="Old Blighty"I have been mulling this over for a few days now...
And in black and white terms here's how I see it.
The developers at Newmarket used the club and it's loyal fans to get planning permission for a huge money making venture. All along knowing that they could slip in a get out clause they could use if nobody noticed... Nobody noticed and they did put it in and are using it!
We as a club and it's fans steamrollered the local community opinion in the genuine desire to support the club in its need for a new ground and the broader community in the provision of fantastic sports facilities amongst the industry. Within this we pressured the planners until it was supported and eventually passed.
Because of the contractual clause the developers are now proposing to buy and redevelop a crumbling ground in a slum area of the city... We are now proposing to abandon our original principals, turn away from the affected community, let the developers make more by developing the proposed sports facilities in industrial units.
I think I would rather Trinity played forever in a crap heap than get Bellevue redeveloped under those terms...
The 'what's in it for me' and 'I'm alright jack' attitude of society today really makes me sick.'"
I do get your point and although there is some truth in what you say though IMO it's a fairly extreme viewpoint.
Just a few crucial things to clarify as I see it…based on ratification of course.
1: The developer will put the same cash into BV as he would NM - so in pure money terms no shafting will have taken place.
2: It's simple economics in that the agreed plan due to the economic climate has become very difficult to see through with the profit margins shareholders expected. YC has protected themselves and their shareholders against this eventuality and have shifted their plans to accommodate - that's business.
3: We could make YC see through NM in the courts but truth is they could just walk away and cut their losses. Probably selling the land on to another developer who would eventually make it pay. All this would take years we as a club and a city don't have.
4: The community element as far as I'm aware will remain minus the stadium. I believe the 4g pitch and floodlights ect will remain on a smaller part of the NM site - I don't believe YC can get out of that but we shall see.
Truth is for me it's all about offering Wakefield a community stadium in a reasonable time frame - and where it is in reality is fairly irrelevant - bar a few technical issues that are not the end of the world. In all honesty I can't see what the Trust could do other than push YC down this route even if it's the lesser option - at least it could happen before most of us die.
From a personal note BV has always been my favoured option even though I understand the compelling argument for NM. However after the collapse of Thornes we'd of bitten anyones hand off for a redevelopment of BV, same as we bit YC's hand off for NM - we were stuffed then and we still are now to a lesser degree, we simply can't be choosey. I think YC's offer if it turns out right is a great offer.
Finally - I'm not suggesting for one minute that this was YC's or the Trusts original intention so it is reflected glory but….
…can you think of anywhere more needing this Stadium than depressed area like BV. If ever anywhere needed a focal point redevelopment to bring in commerce and serve the community it's there. A genuinely well redeveloped BV owned by the trust would be such an asset to build new better community on. Is it not incredibly fitting that the club that has called that area home for 150 years may well provide the catalyst for this.
To me that's far better than some souless lego stadium on the edge of the city miles from anyone and anywhere. Just my opinion.
This is Sir Rodney's take, sound fairly confident to me 
www.wakefieldexpress.co.uk/news/ ... UI.twitter |
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Quote ="Old Blighty"I have been mulling this over for a few days now...
And in black and white terms here's how I see it.
The developers at Newmarket used the club and it's loyal fans to get planning permission for a huge money making venture. All along knowing that they could slip in a get out clause they could use if nobody noticed... Nobody noticed and they did put it in and are using it!
We as a club and it's fans steamrollered the local community opinion in the genuine desire to support the club in its need for a new ground and the broader community in the provision of fantastic sports facilities amongst the industry. Within this we pressured the planners until it was supported and eventually passed.
Because of the contractual clause the developers are now proposing to buy and redevelop a crumbling ground in a slum area of the city... We are now proposing to abandon our original principals, turn away from the affected community, let the developers make more by developing the proposed sports facilities in industrial units.
I think I would rather Trinity played forever in a crap heap than get Bellevue redeveloped under those terms...
The 'what's in it for me' and 'I'm alright jack' attitude of society today really makes me sick.'"
I do get your point and although there is some truth in what you say though IMO it's a fairly extreme viewpoint.
Just a few crucial things to clarify as I see it…based on ratification of course.
1: The developer will put the same cash into BV as he would NM - so in pure money terms no shafting will have taken place.
2: It's simple economics in that the agreed plan due to the economic climate has become very difficult to see through with the profit margins shareholders expected. YC has protected themselves and their shareholders against this eventuality and have shifted their plans to accommodate - that's business.
3: We could make YC see through NM in the courts but truth is they could just walk away and cut their losses. Probably selling the land on to another developer who would eventually make it pay. All this would take years we as a club and a city don't have.
4: The community element as far as I'm aware will remain minus the stadium. I believe the 4g pitch and floodlights ect will remain on a smaller part of the NM site - I don't believe YC can get out of that but we shall see.
Truth is for me it's all about offering Wakefield a community stadium in a reasonable time frame - and where it is in reality is fairly irrelevant - bar a few technical issues that are not the end of the world. In all honesty I can't see what the Trust could do other than push YC down this route even if it's the lesser option - at least it could happen before most of us die.
From a personal note BV has always been my favoured option even though I understand the compelling argument for NM. However after the collapse of Thornes we'd of bitten anyones hand off for a redevelopment of BV, same as we bit YC's hand off for NM - we were stuffed then and we still are now to a lesser degree, we simply can't be choosey. I think YC's offer if it turns out right is a great offer.
Finally - I'm not suggesting for one minute that this was YC's or the Trusts original intention so it is reflected glory but….
…can you think of anywhere more needing this Stadium than depressed area like BV. If ever anywhere needed a focal point redevelopment to bring in commerce and serve the community it's there. A genuinely well redeveloped BV owned by the trust would be such an asset to build new better community on. Is it not incredibly fitting that the club that has called that area home for 150 years may well provide the catalyst for this.
To me that's far better than some souless lego stadium on the edge of the city miles from anyone and anywhere. Just my opinion.
This is Sir Rodney's take, sound fairly confident to me
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| Quote ="vastman"…can you think of anywhere more needing this Stadium than depressed area like BV. If ever anywhere needed a focal point redevelopment to bring in commerce and serve the community it's there. A genuinely well redeveloped BV owned by the trust would be such an asset to build new better community on. Is it not incredibly fitting that the club that has called that area home for 150 years may well provide the catalyst for this.'"
I've made my thoughts on this clear, so I won't bang on; suffice it to say I'm in total agreement with Old Blighty.
This bit though, I think is idealistic in the extreme; the refurbishment of BV will have absolutely no positive effect on the surrounding community and certainly won't serve as a focal point - focal points in Agbrigg are mosques, community centres and polish supermarkets - rugby league doesn't feature. What it will do however, is guarantee that they'll continue to be blighted by inconsiderate and inappropriate parking every other weekend throughout the summer, in perpetuity. |
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you can't make this up 
