The emphasis wasn't on speed... "and finish an attacking move."

Who's finished more of the attacking moves?

I'm not saying Makinson shouldn't be there but I see Makinson as a winger, if he's going to be played at centre then fine but Hall and McGillvary shouldn't be there based on their scoring abilities.

You posted earlier.

Definition of a rugby league winger...

"They are generally among the fastest players in a team, with the speed to exploit space that is created for them and finish an attacking move."

I'm quoting you here, first your definition, then you say the emphasis wasn't on speed.

You're not grasping the point of the definition. break it down...

"They are generally among the fastest players in a team"- Point noted, I'd say TJ is faster than Hall, McGillvary, with Makinson getting a close second.

"With the speed to exploit space that is created for them and finish an attacking move." - End result? "Finish an attacking move" - Who's finished the most attacking moves?

You can't make it any clearer.

Afraid I have to concur - some superb finishes from Eden last year but defensively is he up to the job dealing with the high balls etc or make the yards with the early set carries that Hall does? I'd day no. This isn't club bias as there are a few Cas players I consider very unfortunate not to be involved over the last few years - Shenton, Milner, McMeekin to name three. Eden is well down the list for wingers though.

On TJ - love the boy but he hasn't been good enough for a call up this year. Long term he is probably England's 5 but chances are few and far between to break through until Hall hangs his boots up. He's in the elite training squad and making progress. A good end to the year and might make the Autumn series squad.

That view of a winger is from the 50s.
They now need to be robust enough to make yards on kick return when the forwards have charged the kick. They need to be able to take a high ball under pressure as the wing is now the most often target of the "up and under". They need to be able to manage the defense and pull their colleagues along the line to keep the numbers right. They need to be able to finish a move given the new corner flag rule.

Just putting the fast lad on the wing isn't enough these days.
TJ ticks many of these boxes and will in my and it seems many of our opinions will play for England, but Hall and McGilivray have shown they can do it on the big stage.
If you just want someone faster than Hall you would be playing MCB

OMG haha



Guys my point isn't about his speed, albeit I think he's quicker than all 3. Johnstone is a better finisher than all of them and the stats only back that up.

I'd love to see Johnstone and Makinson in an England shirt, played together i think it would be a deadly asset.

I don't disagree with you. I'd put Charley in that too.

But you could easily say that Hall's stats for England are pretty impressive.
You know I love the stats. All I'm saying is there is more to it that just those stats you are quoting.

Hall and McGillvary are the only 2 players (Excluding SB) to have shown any sort of impact at all at the top level for England and you want to replace them with a player that could not get in a Wakefield team a few weeks back? Makinson I can take as he has consistently been one of the best wingers in the league over the last 3 years so he deserves a shot, In all honesty im not too sure I would take Johnstone over Ah Van.

Lol. That is funny. I actually weed a little bit laughing at that one.
Thanks for that ScouseViking

Bennet clearly prefers his Wingers to be big. Most tries at international level are not length of the field efforts and so the international winger tends to be built big who can make hard years early in the set and have plenty weight to them when contesting balls/barging over from short distance.

Until that trend stops (and once Hall/McGilvary retire) I can't see that lads like Johnstone being picked, much as I think on the whole they deserve to.

I’m sure you wouldn’t - so what.

Too much? Sorry....

The simple fact is that Toms not playing well enough to get ahead of the two incumbent international wingers! He’s hasnt regained his full speed either off the mark or in full flight and he hasn’t regained the same level of footwork going into the line which often saw him slip away from the defender. That’s not to say he never will but he certainly isn’t at the same level he was at before his knee injury.

Makinson is the form winger of the season for me, not just in terms of try’s but because of his all around game. He returns the ball well either into contact or when given space and crucially he defends far better than Tom. His positioning in the defensive line looks more assured and composed while he also looks more confident defending the high cross field kicks. While I think Tom is often let down by his inside defenders I can’t blame all of the defensive errors on them.

Hall has a track record of high quality performances at international level and even turns up for England when his club form has been less than average.

McGillivery was the star player of the World Cup last year and after missing half of the SuperLeague season through injury picked up playing for England he said now playing up to his best form.

Toms going to have to wait for Hall or McGillivery to play themselves out of the England shirt or be injured. In addition there’s a number of good young wingers who will push him to be next in line and there’s also the likes of Makinson, Charley, Burgess, Lynham who are all going to want a shot.

Manfredi will be adding himself to that list if he has recovered from his injury.

Don’t agree RE TJ. I see no difference at all to the pre-injury player tbh. The differences are If there are actually any is that one he’s a marked man now and two due to his injury he’s now a year behind where we expected him to be.

That said the lad is in double figures! Despite missing games so if that’s a dip in form then I suspect that there are a lot of SL wingers who wish they had Johnstone’s lack of form - give the lad a break I say.

Eden has hardly played this year Wren so I'll just concentrate on last year. Its hard to argue regarding Jerry and Hall the way they performed in the world cup but through the season Eden was at least on a par with them but never got a look in.
I agree he doesn't bring it out of defence as well as the others and Makinsons incredible improvement this season (what weights is he doing?) has put him above Eden along with Charnley.
So when all fit Eden 5th Ah Van 6th, And TJ 7th.

Why Charnley, workmanlike at best. Great signing for Warrington but not Internstional standard, in fact he’s just an improved version of Eden.

It’s Hall and mcgilvereys to lose and both still have far to much form to lose.

If this were a full test series I’d like to have thought TJ might tag along for the experience but that’s about all for now.

I’m not really sure what this games meant to be so I’m not to bothered tbh.

IMO Hall and McGillvray have 'peaked' but marginally still first choice wingers. Makinson has had a good season (in a very good team!)
According to some comments on here TJ has not come up to scratch this season -hence not being on the plane.
Well I can put up with such a winger, who has scored some acrobatic tries Mc Gillvray couldn't attempt and is now scoring pretty regularly again!
Tom's time will come, but until it does, I still very much enjoy watching him in a Trinity shirt!

Charnley is twice the player Eden is, had it all before he left for union and is proving he still has it at Wire.

I have to agree. I've been really impressed with him since he came back.

Yes but that doesn’t make him international - there are lots of players who are great at club level but that doesn’t mean they can make the step up. For me Charnley is one of those who can’t step up.

Hall is because of his size and pace and his ability to be at the end of a move. JM is because of his astonishing ability to trouble the Aussies, they just don’t seem to be able to hold him.

TJ has terrific balance and awareness giving him the ability to score tries out of nothing, that is his X factor and if he steps up it will be because he has consistently perfected this ability.

I agree that he should have gone for the experience, I still think he's the most likely to take over from the current two incumbents, given his age and natural ability, although I wouldn't begrudge Makinson any chance, because I think he's been very consistent when fit over the last say 3 seasons.

I do agree with your point on Charnley tbh, it`s the same reason I just don`t see Makinson doing much at international level, his game seems very much based on his strength in shrugging off his opposite number and wriggling out of tackles which in SL is a good asset to have but wingers seem to be on that next peg all around so I can see him been cancelled out and just been `Okay` - Hall has so much experience at international level now and been consistently quite good he seems like the automatic choice (Even when he isnt up to much form wise for his club) as he is Mr Reliable.. To be honest that isn`t always a bad thing and I am glad he gets picked as the one thing he does bring is confidence as he has been there and done it!

In terms of TJ he has not seemed to be as effective this season but as you mentioned earlier a lot of that is down to him been a "Marked man" when teams come to Wakefield they will talk about how dangerous TJ is and closing him down as quick as possible - That said I actually think he is dealing with that quite well! He is still showing he has got all the skill he has had prior to his injury and is still making something out of nothing (Albeit not as frequently).

On a side note I don`t think some people actually realise just what it takes to come back from a horror injury like TJ had, and to do it in the fashion TJ tells us that he is the real deal and here to stay!

The current England team is full of players who can’t step up, Charnley for me can. 9 tried in 8 for England and 162 tries in his career, on his current form I’d put him in over McGilvary every day of the week.