[quote="asmadasa":3upctoir]If Leeds are in for him aswell though it looks like Trinity will be outbid and he’ll go there …[/quote:3upctoir] Why would we be outbid these days?

[fimg=][/fimg][quote="The Avenger":jsxeuyqa]I’d be very happy with Watkins as a second row option, it would remind me of our McGillvary’s signing last year and has the potential to be a real crowd favourite. He’s also a very good professional, a great lad who’d be good to have around the place Like a couple of others have said, we could do with another no nonsense, hard nosed, experience and dependable prop but I’m not over sold on any of Salfords front rowers[/quote:jsxeuyqa] For me Prop is what we are short of. Not a quality issue, but an attritional one. People go on about middle and I get it, but looking at ours none look as though they would be overly comfortable playing as out and out props in an emergency. I don’t think the player would need to be top notch, just a dependable player with a bit of size. There are a few around.

[youtube][/youtube][quote="vastman":vnp8tbqq][fimg=][/fimg]For me Prop is what we are short of. Not a quality issue, but an attritional one. People go on about middle and I get it, but looking at ours none look as though they would be overly comfortable playing as out and out props in an emergency. I don’t think the player would need to be top notch, just a dependable player with a bit of size. There are a few around.[/quote:vnp8tbqq] My point exactly, other than McMeeken, our other starting props are either unproven at SL or have a point to prove. It does worry me. I was disappointed when Bowden signed elsewhere because whilst he isn’t a world beater, he is robust and experienced enough to be a key part of the team. You then look at if one of our first 4 props is injured who steps up? Bain and Vangana are both inexperienced and probably a little lightweight. Storton, probably would be my preference to step up but isn’t a natural prop. So I go back to my previous post, even though it wouldn’t be a exciting or inspiring signing, a experienced and robust SL prop is needed in my opinion.

[quote="Droopy":wpq01xhz][youtube][/youtube]My point exactly, other than McMeeken, our other starting props are either unproven at SL or have a point to prove. It does worry me. I was disappointed when Bowden signed elsewhere because whilst he isn’t a world beater, he is robust and experienced enough to be a key part of the team. You then look at if one of our first 4 props is injured who steps up? Bain and Vangana are both inexperienced and probably a little lightweight. Storton, probably would be my preference to step up but isn’t a natural prop. So I go back to my previous post, even though it wouldn’t be a exciting or inspiring signing, a experienced and robust SL prop is needed in my opinion.[/quote:wpq01xhz] Rodwell, Atoni, Mckmeeken, Uele - will be our starting 4. Vagana, Shaw, Bain, Lingard are our back up props. I think Vagana would be a good step in but there’s questions over the others. But for the off game we should be fine. Would be nice to find one more prop from somewhere. Think we will only start to struggle if we get 2 or more injuries to props. We can cope with 1 out. I’m sure there’s plenty about though who are hunting a loan deal or game time like Eseh, other Wigan prop if and when needed.

Bowden was a loss for me but Powell decided that was the right thing to do. I guess we have to give Shaw game time if he is to develop so we should tryst that he can. To a certain extent Bain is the same. Vagana would be fine but I'd rather let him develop at SR. Cozza is a 13 for me. No more a prop than Pitts.

[quote="PopTart":vt3je8rl]Bowden was a loss for me but Powell decided that was the right thing to do. I guess we have to give Shaw game time if he is to develop so we should tryst that he can. To a certain extent Bain is the same. Vagana would be fine but I'd rather let him develop at SR. Cozza is a 13 for me. No more a prop than Pitts.[/quote:vt3je8rl] Pitts started his SL career with us as a prop so he has the knowledge. However I agree he’s not a prop anymore, he’s actually a perfect example of the arms race where player size is concerned. In the late 2000s he was adequate, now he’s just not big enough imho.

[quote="Droopy":3kdjep53][youtube][/youtube]My point exactly, other than McMeeken, our other starting props are either unproven at SL or have a point to prove. It does worry me. I was disappointed when Bowden signed elsewhere because whilst he isn’t a world beater, he is robust and experienced enough to be a key part of the team. You then look at if one of our first 4 props is injured who steps up? Bain and Vangana are both inexperienced and probably a little lightweight. Storton, probably would be my preference to step up but isn’t a natural prop. So I go back to my previous post, even though it wouldn’t be an exciting or inspiring signing, an experienced and robust SL prop is needed in my opinion.[/quote:3kdjep53] Doesn’t even need to be SL imho. A fringe player or an ambitious young championship player would do fine for me. So long as the attitude is right and they are robust, that would be fine. Bit like a Rodwell, but a U.K. version, won’t be as good but still decent. Saw a few tough lads last year who’d do ok without ever being first choice.

[quote="FSW":1tqujyij]Singleton was really poor when he played for us on loan. Really didn't want to play for us. I wouldn't want him now.[/quote:1tqujyij] Not many did at that point. Players grow up, he’d do as cover so long as he was willing to accept that.

[quote="asmadasa":14fhmzbc]If Leeds are in for him aswell though it looks like Trinity will be outbid and he’ll go there …[/quote:14fhmzbc] Do not think it comes down to out bid , Like Hall played at Leeds most of is career

If he accepts being here as cover I don't want him. He's a starting prop for a playoff team. He should be aiming to be our best prop

[quote="vastman":3qojz2fd]Doesn’t even need to be SL imho. A fringe player or an ambitious young championship player would do fine for me. So long as the attitude is right and they are robust, that would be fine. Bit like a Rodwell, but a U.K. version, won’t be as good but still decent. Saw a few tough lads last year who’d do ok without ever being first choice.[/quote:3qojz2fd] Like Harvey Makin ?? https://www.examinerlive.co.uk/sport/ru ... d-30656477

[quote="vastman":3qojz2fd]Doesn’t even need to be SL imho. A fringe player or an ambitious young championship player would do fine for me. So long as the attitude is right and they are robust, that would be fine. Bit like a Rodwell, but a U.K. version, won’t be as good but still decent. Saw a few tough lads last year who’d do ok without ever being first choice.[/quote:3qojz2fd] Like Harvey Makin ?? https://www.examinerlive.co.uk/sport/ru ... d-30656477

I'd take Singleton, but I think Chris Hill could do a job for 12 months as well.

[quote="imwakefieldtillidie":1p071h77]I'd take Singleton, but I think Chris Hill could do a job for 12 months as well.[/quote:1p071h77] Agreed. Still goes very well. I’d take either in that role as disruptor who can do big minutes if needed who may not look spectacular but does the basics well and is hurtful in defence. Their experience would also be very useful. Wigan showed last year how important it is to have quality in depth in the props and it will be more important this year with the concussion/head knock protocols and teams being expected to manage minutes of their players.

[quote="PopTart":2097w74c]If he accepts being here as cover I don't want him. He's a starting prop for a playoff team. He should be aiming to be our best prop[/quote:2097w74c] Oh do give it a rest for once. You know exactly what I meant so stop the agent provocateur stuff, I wouldn’t mind if you were any good at it. He comes as back up FACT and he will have to accept that to start with FACT. If he goes onto prove himself worthy and becomes first choice that’s fantastic, I’d love that. What he can’t do is swagger in and think he’s number one based on past achievements and then sulk when he isn’t first on the list. You earn your change or are you claiming otherwise?

[quote="vastman":ynxuda1x]Pitts started his SL career with us as a prop so he has the knowledge. However I agree he’s not a prop anymore, he’s actually a perfect example of the arms race where player size is concerned. In the late 2000s he was adequate, now he’s just not big enough imho.[/quote:ynxuda1x] I’m pretty sure Pitts has never played prop other than a few handful of games to cover. Also I don’t recall him propping in his first few seasons in 2008. He came through as a 13 and second row but mainly 13 if memory serves. He played more at second row as time moved on but has transitioned back to 13 now again. He's never been a prop if I remember correctly.

[quote="vastman":1ej2ha03]Doesn’t even need to be SL imho. A fringe player or an ambitious young championship player would do fine for me. So long as the attitude is right and they are robust, that would be fine. Bit like a Rodwell, but a U.K. version, won’t be as good but still decent. Saw a few tough lads last year who’d do ok without ever being first choice.[/quote:1ej2ha03] The likes of Walmsley for Saints, Harrison for Wire, Batchelor for Saints and even Keegan Hirst for us shows there may be some in there who could thrive in full time training. Maybe there’s someone there. I’m surprised that we haven’t picked a project from the championship up.

[quote="Trojan Horse":1sdpohon]The likes of Walmsley for Saints, Harrison for Wire, Batchelor for Saints and even Keegan Hirst for us shows there may be some in there who could thrive in full time training. Maybe there’s someone there. I’m surprised that we haven’t picked a project from the championship up.[/quote:1sdpohon] Off the top of my head I can't think of one forward that played against us last season that would be worth a punt. Doro at Bradford looked decent but he's at Hull KR now.

[quote="imwakefieldtillidie":2bmtzqoz]Off the top of my head I can't think of one forward that played against us last season that would be worth a punt. Doro at Bradford looked decent but he's at Hull KR now.[/quote:2bmtzqoz] I thought Doro was poor. He ran hard but made zero post contact metres and got folded in the tackle. He won’t be SL ready for a couple years but I don’t rate him despite the media hype. Surprisingly, there was a forward who played us a few times for different teams out on loan. Had a good pair of hands too. Think it was Sammy Kibula.

I take your point, but I can’t remember Wigan rotating through many props. Byrne, Thompson, Havard, Dupree, Hill, and Cooper for a handful of games before he got injured. They have Eseh, Makin, and Chan too but I can’t remember any of them playing for Wigan last year. As Trojan often says, we should only sign players who would improve our squad. We’ve got Atoni, McMeeken, Rodwell, Uele, Vagana, Bain, Shaw. Now Chris Hill would certainly improve our squad for a year - his play the ball speed and wrestle is still up there with the best - but that would probably prevent Bain and Shaw getting game time. Singleton? I honestly don’t think he’s as good a player as our first five options. Runs and tackles hard but makes some poor decisions both sides of the ball. What is propping? Hate (love) to bring it up again, but as I see it in the modern game there’s no difference between a prop and a loose forward. I understand that 30 years ago a loose was a dynamic, hardworking, ball handling forward. And 10 years ago a loose became a prop but with good hands who organised other forwards. But now (with a few exceptions like Oledzski and Walmsley) 8,10 and 13 have the same skillset. No SL team should have a prop who can’t set up a play or tip the ball out the back accurately. If Cozza, Bain, or Pitts plays prop, and Rodwell or McMeeken plays 13, you wouldn’t notice apart from at kickoffs. Here for the debate!

I guess out Champ pickup project is Jayden Myers. I didn’t see any standout props last year. I saw some really good hardworking Championship props (Roman Dixon for Dewsbury - signed for Fax, Lambert Belmas at Toulouse, Titus Gwaze at Sheffield) but they all have their limits

[*][quote="Butcher":at4di76n]I take your point, but I can’t remember Wigan rotating through many props. Byrne, Thompson, Havard, Dupree, Hill, and Cooper for a handful of games before he got injured. They have Eseh, Makin, and Chan too but I can’t remember any of them playing for Wigan last year. As Trojan often says, we should only sign players who would improve our squad. We’ve got Atoni, McMeeken, Rodwell, Uele, Vagana, Bain, Shaw. Now Chris Hill would certainly improve our squad for a year - his play the ball speed and wrestle is still up there with the best - but that would probably prevent Bain and Shaw getting game time. Singleton? I honestly don’t think he’s as good a player as our first five options. Runs and tackles hard but makes some poor decisions both sides of the ball. What is propping? Hate (love) to bring it up again, but as I see it in the modern game there’s no difference between a prop and a loose forward. I understand that 30 years ago a loose was a dynamic, hardworking, ball handling forward. And 10 years ago a loose became a prop but with good hands who organised other forwards. But now (with a few exceptions like Oledzski and Walmsley) 8,10 and 13 have the same skillset. No SL team should have a prop who can’t set up a play or tip the ball out the back accurately. If Cozza, Bain, or Pitts plays prop, and Rodwell or McMeeken plays 13, you wouldn’t notice apart from at kickoffs. Here for the debate![/quote:at4di76n] You forgot Mago, Ellis and Walters too. In a salary capped sport to have 11 players who can play prop in your squad was seen as very unusual. Byrne, Dupree and Mago were dropped for significant periods and Cooper injured for most of the season. I think teams carry props that are more middles these days but there are still out and out props out there and most teams carry at least 1 or 2. Uele and Atoni are Props, not middles. Fafita was a prop, Singleton and Hill are props not middles. I’d say a middle is capable of bigger minutes but lacks the impact of a prop. They are also usually more mobile. Ball playing and more importantly decision making is also key certainly the latter which tends to be the difference between a prop and a middle along with a minimum of 60 mins consistently week in week out. Beyond 2025 I hope that Rodwell takes the 13 shirt as I think that is his best position, but for that to happen we would need to recruit props/middles in the next off season.

[quote="Trojan Horse":20rw5qrd]I thought Doro was poor. He ran hard but made zero post contact metres and got folded in the tackle. He won’t be SL ready for a couple years but I don’t rate him despite the media hype. Surprisingly, there was a forward who played us a few times for different teams out on loan. Had a good pair of hands too. Think it was Sammy Kibula.[/quote:20rw5qrd] I didn't think Kibula was anything special, even in the Championship. Struggled to get games in a poor Cas side.

Spot on with Mago, that was an oversight. Might be wrong but don’t think Walters lined up at prop (he was open about not wanting to do that like he did at Leeds). All good points, but why couldn’t Uele or Atoni be middles, apart from the fact they rarely stand at first receiver?

[quote="imwakefieldtillidie":15ak6ae6]I didn't think Kibula was anything special, even in the Championship. Struggled to get games in a poor Cas side.[/quote:15ak6ae6] He’s woeful! Big body and capable of some eye catching plays but lazy and heart the size of a pea, his lack of athleticism particularly his movement laterally makes him very easy to read in attack and a massive target in defence. He was the big lad that dominated games in the Academy because he was physically superior but once he stepped up he looked totally lost and anonymous.