Amor wasn't too happy when he was taken off in the first half, he was getting through the line with each carry and we lacked some "punch" when he was spelled.

Sorry but IMHO you could not be more wrong.

I never wanted Agar, always wanted Kear to stay.

However Agar does not send them out to play badly or lazy - poor players do that all for themselves.

Problem with sacking Agar now (who I agree won't win us anything) sends out all the wrong messages and makes life hard for the next coach.

Once players especially poor ones get it in theirs heads that when they can't or won't do as the coach asks, then basically by playing crap they can get a new coach who may give them an easier ride. If he doesn't then pull the same trick again and again.

Like him or not Agar must get a second season - even if all that achieves is to shift some dead wood and restore some continuity.

Get rid of Agar now and we are inviting anarchy into the dressing room - the time to sack Agar will be at the end of next season unless he confounds us all and does well.

Truth is there are not dozens of quality coaches waiting to coach us - so any belief that a new broom will turn this shambles around quickly is wishful thinking.

Last time we started sacking coaches it went Roe - Mc Nally - Smith. Apart from a freak Solomona/Domic inspired season the club deteriorated dramatically.

Let Agar do the graft for now until NM and pray we play well enough often enough to keep folk turning up - it's a gamble but a better one than hiring one second rate coach after another only for players to pick and chose who stays. The club is bigger than anyone or should be.

Agar should stay and sort out the mess. It's not Agar who drops the ball, makes dumb decisions, puts out rubbish passes, tries to tackle the likes of Hock and Lauaki around the shoulders, flies out of the line and misses the ball carrier completely, fails to smother the ball in tackles, misses tackles etc etc etc. He does need to start dropping some players and making them accountable for what they do on the pitch and he also needs to sort out our speed and fitness - a lot of our poor defence/tackling is down to being too slow and a yard away from where we should be - but keep him and make him earn his money. If he fails, get rid at the end of his contract but not now.

Good points there vasty,

Our only real hope will be some good quality signings in the close season. I just hope when we do recruit we are a liitle more shrewd than last season. I feel we jumped in with some rash signings and stupid long term contracts and that has limited our options to try and improve our squad.

Agreed. I just think Mr Elston got carried away a little. They handed out the 3 year contracts early on as they wanted the stability in place. The 2 things they got wrong were doing this before they got the coach in place who would have to work with the said players and then maybe not getting the right coach?
I am not giving up on RA just yet mind. I think he has to be given a full pre season with a squad of his choosing.

Elston didn't have a lot of chioce.
We were in a position of having to make signings without haveing a coach on board, which is far from ideal.
the really disappointing aspect at the moment is the number of totally unforced errors that we are making.
Passes into touch (ie not finding the winger/ centre, kicking out on the full and forcing the play when we get near the opponents line.
Ultimately we have too many average players and we need a little bit of class.

Don't agree with that assesment at all. After wigan scored there first try our game plan was non existent tackling was awful we failed to complete a set. Getting beat 52-10 at home people not bothad I am because we were appauling ! We DIDNT GIVE Tomkins space the first 20mins with good tactics he didn't like it one bit lashing out at 1 point. Agars team talks at half time must have been be utter garbage. I tell you what we wouldn't have lost like that with JK at the elm. Wigan had 5/6 kids in and we are happy with a 40 point loss pathetic. Kirmond built for 2nd row now Carmont allways going to skin him. Why not give young Cowling a go. POOR SHOW AND REF WAS GARBAGE

Even average don't make the unforced errors we make.

An important point, yet Trinity are scared to give some young lads a shot. They would learn far more about themselves by playing against Wigan then they would in the twentys,

An important point, yet Trinity are scared to give some young lads a shot. They would learn far more about themselves by playing against Wigan then they would in the twentys, I concede its easier to introduce young players into a dominant team.

Not the same at all.
I'm all for playing the kids but Wigan's kids are not the same as ours.

Wigan are in a class way above us. I agree we may as well try the young guys out, there is nothing to loose thanks to Widnes and London (not our skills). However no matter how many of our yong guns we played today Wigan were going to win. Where can you seem our next win coming from?

Although they are the official bogey side, Huddersfield are on a shocking run and Trinity won’t get many better chances to beat them when they meet up in two weeks, other than that I have no idea. Last game of the season maybe.

We havent really had an option this year but to play the kids, Gellings been in for Richards, Thornley for Charnley, Logan for McIlorum & Crosby in for Lima to name a few but I think theres been 10 debuts this year given to lads from the academy.

Yes but the young players of Wigan are surrounded by a settled team of high quality players in all the key positions. There is absolutely no comparision in us playing young players and Wigan doing it, although I agree there comes a time when the experience is invaluable. Also didnt Wigan put 50 past Leeds not long back with more key players missing than yesterday . They are the best team in the competition and it showed . I don't get the idea that if we had a different coach our players would be able to play fast,strong, and controlled rugby like Wigan did , they can't... Also who do you think we could play at half back that is better than T.Smith...a genuine question seeing as I was totally fed up hearing the abuse he was getting yesterday

I heard at one point that Lee Briers would be a better option...when did he sign!???

HaHa.....yeah I heard that too. Calling for Smith to be taken off because he was "crap" but couldn't say who to bring on better than him, except to say Lee Briers was a good player....!!!!!!

It was ok though, Kyle Wood came on and was going to make it happen. Some people need to stick to the facts, if we didn't have Smith in the team we would have scored 18 less Trys and would be routed at the bottom.

The match strategy for this game and against the clubs that challenge for the top four should always be ball retention. Simple as that, no stupid hospital balls, take the tackle and carry on with the next play. Always make sure the ball is looked after, keep the pressure on with kicks into touch breaking up the play. Thats the only way to stay in the game and not be beat by 40 against teams that are far surerior in skills levels. The expansive rugby should be saved for select matches where we can afford to spill it and not be punished. We don't play the ball fast enough or have the passing speed to mix it up with the big boys, the game should have been played on our terms. Instead it was a training session for Wigan.

Smith was far from the worst we had on the field.Kirmond normally one of our better players didnt have a good game at all.Wilkes looked like he had gone back to his days of knock on charlie.Didnt go to the millenium weekend and watched on sky and watching the dressing room at half time and Agar he didnt appear to be able to fireup a well lit BBQ.

t smith dont deserve to be the scapegoat he is without doubt one of our better players.some people just expect him to create trys everytime he gets the ball but with our set of small forwarsds that not going to happen.we all knew we had too small set of forwrds even that muppet who picks the team a player like smith needs his forwards to lead as all good half backs do.had it not been for smith we would of lost more than we than we have