No suprise an abusive retort from Vastman. All I said was TRB's comments questioned the coaching? Do they or don't they? Have you actually read them?I never said he wanted Kear gone.

What is fake about my post - I am a true supporter of the club and want what is best for it.

Anyone who read Eric Ashtons book will remember that he said one of the greatest mistakes he made was to remain as coach at saints for more than three seasons. He then explains how player/coach relationship can get stale etc. He also states that no matter how good the coach is when his time is up he should go. You may think that is a little harsh but saints have stuck to that policy for years and have been the most consistent club in the country as a result of it.

JK did a great job when he arrived with a team he inherited. However since he arrived I think he has made some howlers in recruitment and also players he could have signed but never did. All that apart he was also looking to leave last season and got the job with Les Cats. So hand on heart John would probabaly say a change would also do him good.

I would say, thanks for the job you have done and lest all move on.

Because you're attempting to talk for him as far as I can see and using his reservations to fuel your argument and exaggerating it. I to share some of his reservations but I don't quote him for credibility.

Only JK has the enough access to the team that allows any real grasp of the tactics this team requires. 7 wins suggests to me that all things considered he's doing OK. If you honestly think this team is capable of more wins then your deluded IMO. Yes we could be more expansive and creative and we may well be more entertaining - in fact we may have won a few extra games. The down side is we'd have lost some that our negative tactics won us. Our biggest problem is not our attack it's our defence, we scored enough points to beat London but we gave far more away, that is nothing to do with negative football.

Using TRB to give your argument some respectability is pathetic. I might as well say 2x Ccup winner Kear is happy with his team then in your top trumps world I win hands down.

I to would like to see certain players get more chances, for as long as I can remember I've wanted many Trinity sides under many coaches to exploit the width of BV and the pacy wingers we seem to always have but never use. There is a simple reason though as to why we don't and never have. We are a poor club and can't afford or keep the players to make it happen IMO. Do you think if Kear still had the likes of Brough in his team he wouldn't want to play more open Rugby.

Sometimes you need to think long term, Kear is trying to produce a base for a team of the future and that takes more than half a season, something fans never seem to grasp.

You look at NRL clubs, often they will plod along for years then explode into life, often with the same player and coach. It's how they work, they build and some sustain it some don't but it happens.

The team we have now may look very dull on occasion but with another season under their belt and a few additions and all that may change. You want to risk that because we were beaten by a team away from home who despite their poor run are hardly rubbish.

Yes you do need to tell me your options for an alternative coach, if you can't you clearly have no argument at all you're just moaning.
You name me an alternative and I'll give you a fair response.

As for BJ, yes it's a strange one and I didn't like it but I don't know the full facts and neither do you.

The question of "who could have done better" is hypothetical.Because we will never know,for every name someone could suggest it couldnt be proved either way.
FWIW,I suggested well over twelve months ago - Trent Robinson.

The brand of rugby Kear has been serving up for well over a year is extremely poor.This has nothing to do with the quality of players at his disposal and everything to do with his coaching techniques.Players that have made it this far in their career,on the whole,have been coached for years in the basic techniques,they have ability!!They will have spent their years doing more than 5 drives and a kick.For anyone to suggest a player at this level doesnt have the quality to play any other way than five drives and a kick is wrong.
Kear wanted out last year.If a player wants out we let them go(normally without a fee),the logic being no point keeping a player that doesnt want to be here.I find it amazing the same people that apply that logic to players,dont apply it to the coach.

Quite frankly,you dont need a coach for the brand of rugby we play under Kear.

Someone with little knowledge of the game and of low intelligence could coach the style we play.

Even you could coach that style Vasty!!

Eric Ashton coached in a completely different era, I don't think it's relevant.

Kear may well not lead us to victory and he will go eventually but now is not the time. Any coach we take on now would inherit a poison chalice. Kear has created a team from nothing, his real test is when he has the money for something, then and only then should he be judged. It's a new regime with new ways of doing things. If AG is what people say then Kear above all others deserves a chance to benefit - he deserves at least a season if we retain SL.

That's the problem, I couldn't and neither could you.

Being a terrace coach which so many seem to be you included is the easiest job in the world - no consequences. Being a real coach like Kear is for real men - hope I'm clear on that.

What is relevant is that saints have always changed their coach after two or three seasons (in a structured way)
don't think it has done them any harm do you ?

I wouldn't want Noble!

Totally agree Kear as done a miracle getting us 7 wins. When he had money we got our highest ever position in SL and a semi final of a cup. He didn't even have over much money. You people who are against him make me laugh. There is no coach in the world or even jesus christ that would make Josh Vievers into a Billy Slater he as done his best. Hes done great to get a team together let alone competing week in week out.

My take on the coaching scenario is this, (and Vastman and Tricky, have both valid points) the last two seasons have ended up as a write off as far as ideal coaching and playing conditions go.
From that view point it is a little unfair to judge JK, who i think prior to this period had done a very good job.
Look at Hull KR, Morgan was the blue eyed boy of coaching a few years ago, and i would argue has far better conditions to do his job under, yet he flatters to deceive and his job is "reportedly" under threat. JK on the other hand is largely respected and is commonly linked with other jobs, that says quite a bit.
In JKs defense he was always going to be having to play the percentages this year, and as far as i am concerned if we get through it in one piece, we will have one at least 6 more SL games than many of us thought, and for that he deserves some credit.
Come next year we have a clear fork in the road, SL or Championship:

Super League, given a good playing budget, can he do more than over achieve with under achievers, can he take us a step beyond where we are, can he coach players of higher skills successfuly and can he do it consistently?

Championship, is he the man to develop a young exiting team of local/british players to develop us to become a SL side once again, a change from bottom to top in the club as a developer of fine players, or does he consider himself a SL coach and will he not be interested?

For me, the answer to both is yes, in SL he needs to be given a real chance under the right conditions to show that he is the man for us, but with a real threat of failure. If we are to find ourselves in the Championship, and we can keep him, i think he is the man to bring long term improvement to our club in a less intense environment and then perhaps have another crack at SL or to move into a more general role.

I'm the most un-knowldegeable and unintelligent person I know!



FWIW I tend to agree with Jack in a Box (a coach should only be in place for so long) - and having witnessed the performances at Salford and Quins I do think that we are failing to make the most of the limited resources we have. Now whether that is down to coaching, lack of talent or even that the vultures are surrounding the players trying to pick off the best ones for next season and filling their heads with tales of woe in the championship, I can't be at all sure.

I do think something needs shaking up on the coaching side and, with all due respect to Mr Broadbent who has done a fine job for the club, I have to say I was disappointed that the club didn't take the opportunity to bring in fresh blood into the backroom and bring some new ideas to the club. Perhaps that may turn out to be one of Kear's biggest mistakes - who knows?

At the end of the day there is a mechanism at the club to decide if Kear is the man. It used to be the committee now it's the BOD. As far as I can see they are the only people in a position to know the facts. Fans have aright to an opinion and to counter that opinion but that's as far as it can ever go - can you imagine a team picked on here let alone trained and given a game plan!

By any logical conclusion Kear has done enough IMO.

OK, and what Saints coach in recent memory has taken over the bottom club or had most of his best players sold from under his nose in the close season. Come on it's hardly like for like is it. I'd agree to some extent if we were a stables club.

I totally agree



I don't agree for the same reasons I gave Jack "OK, and what Saints coach in recent memory has taken over the bottom club or had most of his best players sold from under his nose in the close season. Come on it's hardly like for like is it. I'd agree to some extent if we were a stable club".

My favourite Wakefield player and Coach was Toppo - he took us from the obscurity of Div 1 and built a half decent squad at our club - but even he would admit that enough was enough and felt that he should probably have gone a year or so before he did.

I'm not knocking John for the sake of it, we owe him a debt of gratitude which we should never forget, but we are living in 2011 and not 2006/7. I just don't think it's healthy to stay unchanged for so long and I feel the argument to keep John is the safe bet, but one that doesn't challenge the club. There's some great lines about embracing change and not being frightened of it - change would be a good thing for us, even though I accept that there are no guarantees of succes with it!

How's that for an answer?

Again I'd agree if Kear had been given a fair run. Like Toppo (who could be the king of grind it out RL) he's never really had the chance to build that team. Would Toppo have felt the same if he's have been able to keep Wright, Jackson and Price, I doubt it. I just think he deserves one more season to benefit from the AG culture if that culture is what some believe it to be.

That's a better answer.

Edited for accuracy.

As for your comment about it being pathetic me using TRB's opinion for credibility - I don't need to and replying to any other poster than you I wouldn't have. I merely raised it because unlike the majority of people on here - you dont ridicule his opinion.

Now if TRB has a problem with that, then I am happy to apologise to him, but as he hasn't said so, why do you feel the need to jump in?

No problem!

(There isn't a Carribean smilie!)

Millward, Noble, Powell or Aston as a wildcard would be my suggestions for an alternative coach.

Quite a lot to comment on above so I'll just give my opinion rather than joining an existing discussion.

Before Kear came to Wakefield I wasn't that keen on his style. Just based on a few games I suppose but that's how it is.
Having now watched his teams develop I have a different view.

The number one criterea for a coach, especially at a low budget one, is to improve the skills and performance of the players in his charge. There are a long list of players who have benefitted from JK's style: Wilkes, Moore, Bibey, Brough, Korkidas all showed significant improveent, and in some cases cashed that in elsewhere.
There are others that improved within their own limitations like Paul White. He hasn't gone on to big things but he was struggling for a while at Wakefield and we got some good games out of him when he improved once dropped. I pick him only because I've seen him recently and it reminded me.

As a team the players have often punched above their weight, winning games they really shouldn't have expected to. And that applies to teams in each of the years he has been here. It isn't the same players he is doing this with, he is transferring those skills to new young teams.

In addition, the role includes managing the team off the field as well as on. Many coaches don't even have a career ending injury to manage in their team........JK has had to manage a team through 3 deaths. I'm certain most people in senior management in industry would struggle with this never mind when your results are reviewed as critically as a sports manager.
I feel he has steered the Wakefield ship (dreadnaught!) through those rough times with a great amount of personal integrity and great skill.
We have of course in that time had a further slow death of the club heading to administration. That alone is stressful enough to see many coaches jump ship.

It is easy to look at higher clubs and envy their managers because of the success but I think McRae shows exactly why that is not a fair comparison. Very successful and well liked at Sts but hasn't been able to just apply that to Salford. Very different environment.
and also, although I'm all for the continuous improvemnt is good policy that doesn't mean an automatic change of coach after a certain period of time. The playing roster at Wakefield changes so much it doesn't matter. The style changes with the team anyway. Doesn't seem to have hurt Man Utd too much keeping their guy in place.

So given all that I'm happy with what we have. I'm not saying that if we started spending big money and we decided to go for Wayne Bennett to manage a big name team that I wouldn't back the move over JK, but in our situation, whether Super League or not, in my opinion, he is the best man for the job.

Please tell me you're having a giraffe?
first two absolutely not, second two huge gamble, although i am an admirer of both.

No point - you'd still get 5 drives and a kick rugby.

Why "absolutely not" Noble or Millward? (Remember, him tipping us to loose most weeks on the sporting life isn't really a reason for Millward)

Aston would be a real gamble, I appreciate that but Powell wouldn't have been in my opinion.

So who's opinion would you like me to spout?

I don't ridicule TRB's opinion when he's on about stuff he's expert on. I'm not as convinced as you that he is the man to decide if Kear stays or goes.

A simple request would be for you to accept that others have a different opinion to you and that (a) even though you think your right all the time it is possible that you aren't (b) there is no need to resort to insults because someone happens to have a different opinion to you or raises what they feel to be valid points with regards yours.

As I have said before, you do make some good points every now and again, so its a pity you feel the need to resort to insults/condescending comments.