I don't really know how they test it either, but just like everyone else, I don't know how they decide paracetamol, ibuprofen, flu vaccine, MMR or anything else are tested either.

I don't get the anti vax logic that this one is different.

The govt has a duty to care for it's citizens, often when they don't think they need caring for - seat belts, helmets on motorbikes, clean air zones, emissions-based taxation systems - the list is endless.

None of the things you cite as personal choice affect me in the way covid will - if you are fat or drunk = I won't catch it from you.

You say the govt is responsible for the health care of the nation = big govt; but not responsible for health of the individual = small govt. It can't be both these things.

As an example, we blame the govt for under-resourcing care homes (which are all privately owned!), but want our own individual freedoms to be consequence-free.

Is govt responsible for us or not?

Indeed not, but along with smoking, they put unnecessary pressure on the NHS. Even sport puts pressure on the NHS with unessessary injuries sustained in weekend matches.

Following the stance on covid, it stands to reason the government should ban all three vices, otherwise the point to protect the NHS is flawed.

Roll all those things together and multiply them by 10 = they don't come close to impacting the NHS in anything like the same way as covid!

BTW - I am as confused as many others, when all the data seems to suggest numbers are dropping (and I just checked the BBC site to be sure), yet restrictions are being ramped up!

And another thing - those saying this Tory govt blah blah blah...Labour want STRONGER restrictions!

They are NOT the political party of freedom.

The lower limit is 4000 standing

Thanks for confirming. I couldn't remember the number.

Another dilemma really.
Do the club limit attendance to 4k (- season tickets) or leave it open and risk getting <4k because of the need for covid passes?
I think a negative lateral flow test will suffice.
How easy is it to check everyone's covid pass on entry?

No more difficult than checking a ticket..... Assuming people know how to open it in the first place. The people on the gate would need a bit of help I think to make it smooth.

Hopefully, it will look different by the first round proper on the 13th February.

I just think it will put a lot off and an opening day fixture at home against Hull needs to be a bumper crowd.

I agree but can I pull you up on one point, a real big bear of mine.

Although fatty foods in excess are not good for you it’s now widely accepted that this was a red herring to hide the real culprit.

Sugar is the real enemy and always has been. Ever wondered why people in the fifties and sixties were pencil thin yet lived on dripping.

Avoid anything containing fructose and it’s derivatives and you will be Twiggy within 6 month. That will happen even if you still have the odd bacon butty.

Read the political history behind refined sugar in the US, it’s not a conspiracy theory it’s a fact, it’s fascinating and it’s still happening.

Subject to approval by MPs, from Wednesday 15 December, people in England will need to use the NHS Covid Pass to gain entry to:

Nightclubs
Indoor unseated venues with more than 500 people
Unseated outdoor venues with more than 4,000 people
Any venue with more than 10,000 people
People who are not fully vaccinated will be able to show proof of a recent negative lateral flow test instead.

I agree

Apologies I should have encompassed sugary foods too I've seen the documentary re the sugar barons in the US and their lobbying power. Scary to think they have so much control

There is a bit of a scam going round on texts saying you need a covid passport and click the link to download.
Of course they ask for card details.

The app is free from android or apple store.
It's the NHS App from NHS Digital.

What are the consequences of me been unvaccinated effecting anyone around me. I'm less likely to spread it than anyone that's vaccinated. I had a bad dose of it in the Summer I already have natural Immunity and that does protect me and others around me more so than anyone thats not had it but is vaccinated. If natural immunity didn't work we would know about but no credible study has come out to show it doesn't.

Not sure it will, you have your season pass scanned on entry it will be or is no difference to when I have my Covid pass scanned.

But we are just as likely to pass it to you and as you are unvaxed you are more likely to be in hospital.

You should all find out how ,easy or hard it is with the Vaccine passport for the Leeds game on Boxing day .Please do not say it's a friendly so it does not count

Sorry, but you don't have natural immunity in the same way you don't against the latest version of the flu. All you have is immunity against the strain you had, one which may well have been superseded numerous times since. True you probably have an improved immunity but you're far from safe I'm afraid.

The fact that you had a 'bad dose' shows you're pre-disposed to the virus. Remember this is a virus that a third of people who have had it show no symptoms, they are the ones with the natural immunity, or at least so far. You are clearly not one of those.

Get vaccinated please. you are clearly at risk.

Sorry to rain on your parade a friend of mines daughter from East Yorkshire had Delta in the summer she now has omicron so think again about your immunity you will not have any in a couple of weeks by the looks of things.

Not how I understand it, being triple vaccinated does offer you protection against Omnicron in the same way it does against the others, ie it improves your bodies immune response giving you a much-improved ability to fight it off.

Omnicron so far doesn't appear more lethal, just more transmissible. So far we have been lucky in that none of the variants has been more deadly than the first, should the next mutation do this then we may be in bother as the time lapse between a revised vaccine to become available may be too long. Hence the semi lockdown.

Whatever, Covid remains a very scary beast.

I'm sorry I don't except that at all while a new variant does leave me a little more exposed I have enough previous immunity to not suffer. The evidence from the Alpha to delta variant has to be the overriding factor here. The evidence just isn't there and I'm pretty sure they've tried to find it. I don't so why this should be different. If I thought I was any risk to myself and anyone around I wouldn't hesitate to my Jab.

Going back to my original question and considering the Government are going to soon start classing double jabbed as unvaccinated (it's turning into a subscription service) this has tom be a worry on how this will impact on gates?

I come in peace. Been reading this thread with interest and also wondered as to how they might be implemented.

This comes on the day that it appears the government website ran out of test kits apparently and with supply chains and actual contracts being what they are who knows what the availability of tests will actually be in the new year.

As regards capacity, it would be interesting to see how different grounds can/will interpret the rather odd rules. Will they simply go off total capacity, go off a general average of overall crowd, or is there scope to treat each stand as a separate entity?

Personally, logical fallacy or not, I'm not a fan of these types of measures in general, where they are heading or the division they are already clearly sewing and I too am waiting to buy my season ticket based on what will be invoked.