Are you arguing with yourself now?

If you meant Mash then I misunderstood which 'they' you were having a go at. I was talking about Carter as others are talking about Carter's interview where he takes responsibility.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, Apppegarth needs to take a reasonable chunk of responsibility for our performances and subsequent relegation. We have had a record amount of nillings and poor performances throughout the year, yet still had ample opportunities to save the year. Getting pumped by Cas at home was unforgivable. Seeing the same old mistakes yet same old faces playing who simply shouldn’t of been. I have nothing personal against Mash and do believe he is a good young coach, but he simply shouldn’t of gone for this job, we needed an experienced coach who may have been in these waters before. Mash obviously thought he was up to the job and has failed miserably.

Thanks for giving me your opinion old lad or I believed a know nothing like Paul Sculthorpe on tv saying he knows Mash well and he's a good coach

Winning 4 games in a whole season would strongly suggest that he isn't a good coach. Getting knocked out of the chwllenge cup in the first round they played would strongly suggest he isnt a good coach. Leading the team who had the most nillings ever in Super League would strongly suggest he isn't a good coach. Getting your home team club relegated in your first season would strongly suggest he isn't a good coach.

I'm sure he's a lovely bloke, but he is the worst coach in Super League and club history

I don't go in for the 'he's rubbish because of the result'. There are loads of things that affect the result, injuries in particular at the beginning of the season

However, at the Shareholder meetings, Mash said he didn't want to talk about individual players, and possibly right to do it, but I'd like to know

1) why could Fifita arriving improve Atoni's performance, but you and no one else including Atoni himself could do it
2) why play Proctor when he either can't do more than 35 minutes at best and 15 at worst. Who's decision was it not to come back on, Proctor or Mash.
3) who's decision was it to sign Proctor?

Sure you know more than Sculthorpe you know a lot less than me though

Sure you know more than Sculthorpe you know a lot less than me though

Surely that's Tony Anderson's badge?

Close, but I think Applegarth has taken over. Anderson came in 2002 and saved Fax from relegation in his first season, and while they may have lost a couple more games in 2003 than us this season, they weren't nilled as many times.

. Ply W D L F A Diff Pts

Fax 27 1 0 26 372 1227 -855 0* (*Fax lost the 2 Pts for Salary Cap Breach I think)
Trin 26 4 0* 22 291 686 -686 8* (* We had 3 draws so could have been 9 pts)

Anyway up [uif you solely blame a coach for the results[/u Anderson was worse.

An average of 11 points for has really killed us this year, and by far and away has been the main issue Applegarth hasn't been able to resolve. He stays next year any enthusiasm I have for a fresh start will have dissipated, along with the suggestion that we'll be utilising the dual reg/loan market (although why Carter is commenting on that I dont know).

Leigh have shown the way to go, and if Ellis takes over we need quality, not cast offs.

Eitherway I'll still be the next February/March.

These 3 question pretty much frame up my take on the car crash if a season. Answer these and you answer what is wrong with the club.

You are correct that not being able to score points has killed us......but it was not unsolved, it just came too late.
First 13 league games we averaged 6 points per game.
Second 13 league games we averaged 16 points per game.

If Sculthorpe thinks he’s a good coach, then maybe he wouldn’t mind seeing him be the next coach of St Helens then.

He’s not a good coach and no amount of statistical manipulation, bending of theoretical physics, barrage of celebrity PR announcements or sympathy searching statements from Carter & Minards will change the lived experience of fans and players alike during this monstrosity of a season!

Il have a go then
1 big dave came back into the club saw it was a shambles on the field and stuck his hand up and basically said I'm going to lead from the front. Atoni and a few others even proctor in a few games went with him stuck their hand up and thought right wel roll our sleeves up and have a go.
2 it was plainly obvious from the start of the season that proctors legs had gone but we continued with him when we could of played young lads like eseh and crowther.
3 poaching was offered proctor but didn't want as like I said his legs had gone, poaching departs, one of the coach or Carter still sign proctor. That's my take on it

Yes but I wanted the actual answer, not your assumptions. But thanks anyway.

Your not going to get the answers from those responsible because it would admit they were wrong.
I thought you defended Proctor when I said why was he selected and you quoted his history in the second row as the reason.

I didn't defend him at all. I just pointed out where you were wrong.

Nothing much to disagree with there, when you look at minutes Proctor as been on the pitch, we have had to play 3/4 of most games with 16 players and I'm probably been generous to him there.

When you post like this it makes for good and interesting reading.

The point is, we all can see the issue. There's no doubting that. I just don't understand why.
There's no point speculating. Only Mash can answer it.

Yes, and we will probably never know.

Scarlet appeared on this board with one single agenda, just after Michael Carter took over. I therefore expect him to leave and continue his stalking elsewhere once MC quits.

I’d be happy if he just stopped moaning

I am going nowhere just to satisfy your dream of utopia without any dissenting voices to remind you of the actual facts that the current incumbents have overseen the destruction of our squad, appointed a coach who was clearly not good enough but did not sack him and then the ultimate humiliation relegation. They follow this up with a championship strategy that stands no chance of success unless they can guarantee no injuries but it does allow them to reduce the budget once again.
I believe it is a complete abdication of their duties to the club and supporters but not some of you, who still think they are not to blame despite the facts which are clear to see.
I will be glad when they are gone, I am not going to deny it and based on history it would be difficult for any new owner to do worse with regards the on field product of the last few seasons.I suppose I lack the hero worship syndrome of some of you.