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| Quote ="-VIKINGMAN-"More questions in that than there is about the universe, you debating hoar starbug. Bit quiet in Leyther land today?
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It is only by asking questions that you find answers , unfortunatley pride sometimes stops people from questioning what they are doing , most sports businesses are run by people who have been successful in business , however that does not prepare them for running a business designed to lose money to be a ' success '
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| Quote ="Starbug"Clubs at our level cannot afford many F/t employees so yes the 1 st place to look at is the admin , however you do need some and I'm guessing that you currently have the balance about right , once you have done that then it is all about maximissing revenue from anywhere you can and somehow getting more through the gates
My personal opinion is that all the non SL clubs need to work together on this , collaboration is vital , non of us are big enough to go it alone
I am assuming you do a decent amount of community work , but the question is , does this work pay off , do you have the resources to follow up the work done in the schools ? , do you get the kids through the gates at Cougar Park because of this work ? , if not why not , and what needs to happen to change this ?
Do you make any money from merchandise sales ? , do those sales cost money to achieve ? , how can you improve both the amount of those sales and the profit on those sales ? , you also have to avoid being left with unsold stock , How do you get the people of the town wearing Cougar branded stuff instead of leeds/bulls ?
Do you have the resources to get into the town centre/local supermarkets on a regular basis with offers to entice families to the matches ? , to achieve this , who are you targeting ?
How profitable is your lottery ? , how can you make it more profitable ?
Is keighley an attractive proposition for ' corporate ' type support , do you have the business and industry locally to bring in the amount of support that the RFL encourage us to chase ? , if it's not there is it even worth chasing ? , my opinion is that business/corporate support is either there or not , the business is there in the town and knows you exist or it isn,t
Is the televising of games at our level worth what we recieve for them ? , do clubs at our level get more sponsorship because of the televising of games ? , if not how can we change this ?
All these things and more need to be looked at from an individual clubs perspective and collectively by all the clubs , we are all in a fight for survival , and in a fight , numbers are stronger than individuals'"
One way to keep costs down is to use volunteers as much as possible during match days.. Obviously there has to be employed staff to deliver corporate entertainment and administer the club/facilities.
It appears to me that the 'pay the wages at all costs' scenario, has potentialy cost the club. Thats not to say that that is a bad thing, but perhaps the wages offered, players, directors or otherwise, should have been capped..
They must have been nervous turning on the floodlights towards the end of last season.....
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| Quote ="Whinger©"One way to keep =#FF0000costs down is to use volunteers as much as possible during match days.. Obviously there has to be employed staff to deliver corporate entertainment and administer the club/facilities.
It appears to me that the 'pay the wages at all costs' scenario, has potentialy cost the club. Thats not to say that that is a bad thing, but perhaps the wages offered, players, directors or otherwise, should have been capped..
They must have been nervous turning on the floodlights towards the end of last season.....
'"
The thing is though that at the level we and you are at there is a lot more to be gained from increasing revenue than reducing costs , the costs will be very close to being as low as they can be to operate , more income is the real issue here , without adding costs
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| Merchandising is some thing we should look at.
We only sell stuff out of a converted shipping container when games are on.
At this time of year we should have been looking to blag a disused market stall and selling stuff on a weekend.
As for players and staff, they're costing more than what the club is making at the moment so unless revenue increases you would have to assume jobs will have to go.
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| Quote ="Stealth Comic"Merchandising is some thing we should look at.
We only sell stuff out of a converted shipping container when games are on.
At this time of year we should have been looking to blag a disused market stall and selling stuff on a weekend.
As for players and staff, they're costing more than what the club is making at the moment so unless revenue increases you would have to assume jobs will have to go.'" the problem with cutting players wages is you get a less quality of player which leads to a lesser quality of product on the field which leads to smaller gates.catch 22 i think.
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| I have to disagree with those advocating folk at club lose their jobs as a result of the directors mess its high time they took responsibility for this. At the end of the day the cougars product on the pitch is working and the community work is great in addition to this the club has recently been getting new albeit small businesses buying into the product the cougars are selling. Why other folk should suffer for failure at the very top beats me, remember with the new consortium staff and players futures are secure.
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| Quote ="j.c"the problem with cutting players wages is you get a less quality of player which leads to a lesser quality of product on the field which leads to smaller gates.catch 22 i think.'"
I see where your coming from but I'd rather see us get beat by 50 points every week than not watch us at all because we've paid out too much and gone under.
Apart from us there are at least 4 other clubs that have been in a similar predicament in the last year and for all we know that's the tip of the iceberg.
Personally I think the RFL should take the lead and lower the salary cap to a level that makes it very difficult for any team to go under by breaking the bank.
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| Quote ="j.c":23sfyrw7the problem with cutting players wages is you get a less quality of player which leads to a lesser quality of product on the field which leads to smaller gates.catch 22 i think.'" and more importantly 100 % of your target fan base wouldn't know or care
Detatch yourself from being a regular go anywhere anytime fan and put yourself into the position of somebody who has never been to a RL match , or a kid of 7/8/9 , what would bring you back to Cougar Park after one visit ?
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| Quote ="girl power"I have to disagree with those advocating folk at club lose their jobs as a result of the directors mess its high time they took responsibility for this. At the end of the day the cougars product on the pitch is working and the=#FF0000 community work is great in addition to this the club has recently been getting new albeit small businesses buying into the product the cougars are selling. Why other folk should suffer for failure at the very top beats me, remember with the new consortium staff and players futures are secure.'"
Is it ?
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| There's NO WAY Rachel would have strippers in the bar, though...
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| I think good vocal - and friendly - crowds would get people coming back, but it's always better for a first time visitor to see a win, which could be a problem...
So, we need to get a half decent attendance, loud but friendly. To do that, we need to reach a target audience, be it families, young adults or whatever, but people who will be paying to get in. Not just flooding schools with free tickets, but getting people to part with the readies.
How about a '2 games for twenty quid' kinda deal for a new supporter, where a season ticket holder can introduce a new fan or summat?
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| Quote ="Mick W."There's NO WAY Rachel would have =#FF0000strippers in the bar, though...
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Its an idea , we can take it on board and look at it's merits
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| Quote ="Mick W."I think good vocal - and friendly - crowds would get people coming back, but it's always better for a first time visitor to see a win, which could be a problem...
So, we need to get a half decent attendance, loud but friendly. To do that, we need to reach a target audience, be it families, young adults or whatever, but people who will be paying to get in. Not just flooding schools with =#FF0000free tickets, but getting people to part with the readies.
How about a '2 games for twenty quid' kinda deal for a new supporter, where a season ticket holder can introduce a new fan or summat?'"
This is why I asked about your community work and your ability to get into town centres and supermarkets , I assume you give out free kids tickets with a paying adult , Does it work ? , what is your take up ? , do you give out anything else ? , who do you target when offering free tickets ? the dads ? or the mothers ?
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| Quote ="Stealth Comic":vckurlm7I see where your coming from but I'd rather see us get beat by 50 points every week than not watch us at all because we've paid out too much and gone under.
Apart from us there are at least 4 other clubs that have been in a similar predicament in the last year and for all we know that's the tip of the iceberg.
Personally I think the RFL should take the lead and lower the salary cap to a level that makes it very difficult for any team to go under by breaking the bank.'"
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| Quote ="Mick W."I think =#FF0000good vocal - and friendly - crowds would get people coming back, but it's always better for a first time visitor to see a win, which could be a problem...
So, we need to get a half decent attendance, =#FF0000loud but friendly. To do that, we need to reach a target audience, be it families, young adults or whatever, but people who will be paying to get in. Not just flooding schools with free tickets, but getting people to part with the readies.
How about a '2 games for twenty quid' kinda deal for a new supporter, where a season ticket holder can introduce a new fan or summat?'"
What you are suggesting is something very familiar to you , atmosphere , a good day out , something more than just attending a RL match , you could call it something like , well I dont know , maybe , how about
Cougarmania
Maybe I am making it sound easier than it really is , of that I have no doubt , but it is what needs to happen , not just at Couar park but at all the grounds outside SL
I suggested last season that you and Dewsbury offer to pay for each others away fans to attend the 2 TV games , why would I suggest such a thing ? , why should your club pay for fans to come from Dewsbury to support the team trying to beat the Cougars ? , madness isn't it
But , if you could have got 5/600 of them to come the atmosphere would have been electric , you then appeal to the people of Keighley to turn out because you dont want to be outsung on your patch
When you then go to the Tetley stadium , you take 5/600 , the result is a good atmopheric match
Like the owden days , remember
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| Quote ="j.c"i think clubs outside SL run up big debts because theres nothing to lose.ig debts,10point deduction,religation,start afreshit =#FF0000a cycle that clubs in our divisions get themselves into.it is all wrong and it should be stopped.my own thoughts are,that no clubs are allowed to spend more than there income and if they are found to have done so they are instantly religated for a period of time and the same for champ/1 teams deny them promotion for the same period.also clubs should not be allowed to accept loans with or without interest[everbecause these will alway come back and haunt you at some stage.if every club adhered to ideas like this there would less trouble,less anger and less miss trust amongst us supporters[just my thoughts'"
The only way of stopping that is to increase revenue and to rigorously police salary caps
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| Quote ="Starbug"Does having better players result in more people through the gates ?
The ' product ' [ I hate that term but it is the most suitable on this occaision can be just as exciting with lesser quality players than supposed better ones , good attacking RL can be played at any level , much of that is down to the coach , I'd guess that 80/90 % of your fans base wouldn't know the difference [ I know I wouldn't and more importantly 100 % of your target fan base wouldn't know or care
Detatch yourself from being a regular go anywhere anytime fan and put yourself into the position of somebody who has never been to a RL match , or a kid of 7/8/9 , what would bring you back to Cougar Park after one visit ?'" i'm like you pal i can watch rugby anywhere but if one team is'nt as good as the others its an unfair advantage and not good to watch
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| Quote ="Starbug":14tmfjggThe only way of stopping that is to increase revenue and to rigorously police salary caps'" it should be policed vigorously without exception.
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| Quote ="j.c"i think clubs outside SL run up big debts because theres nothing to lose.ig debts,10point deduction,religation,start afreshit a cycle that clubs in our divisions get themselves into.it is all wrong and it should be stopped.my own thoughts are,that no clubs are allowed to spend more than there income and if they are found to have done so they are instantly religated for a period of time and the same for champ/1 teams deny them promotion for the same period.also clubs should not be allowed to accept loans with or without interest[everbecause these will alway come back and haunt you at some stage.if every club adhered to ideas like this there would less trouble,less anger and less miss trust amongst us supporters[just my thoughts'"
I agree to an extent.
I've put on another thread that clubs should be independently audited and should they be found to be operating at a loss before borrowings and sugar daddy financing they should have their salary cap lowered by a percentage relative to the gravity of the offence.
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| Quote ="Stealth Comic"I agree to an extent.
I've put on another thread that clubs should be independently audited and should they be found to be operating at a loss before borrowings and sugar daddy financing they should have their salary cap lowered by a percentage relative to the gravity of the offence.'" what do you do if they keep over spending
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| Quote ="Stealth Comic"I agree to an extent.
I've put on another thread that clubs should be independently audited and should they be found to be operating at a loss before borrowings and =#FF0000sugar daddy financing they should have their salary cap lowered by a percentage relative to the gravity of the offence.'"
And yet that is something the RFL are actively encouraging
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| Theres nothing we can do anymore, the clubs gone into admin and we're gonna lose points from the RFL. The only people to blame are those that let the club get into such a bad state in the first place.
You cant just say sack staff at the club, it's tight enough as it is down there. Who would you really get to do the jobs they do? It's alright saying get volunteers in but who's going to stand behind the bar and miss the entire game? Or stay around after closing up time and clean up?
I feel sorry for Colin in all this, he's ploughed money into the club and now look whats happened. Who's going to go down to the kitchen at 6am putting the ovens on and filling them with joints of beef for the meal upstairs?
At the end of the day nothing can be done other than carry on the work getting more fans into the ground, which lets face it was happening last season I certainly saw a crowd increase. We just need to get behind the lads for the start of the season, they're gonna try their best even with a points deduction. Lets just get behind them.
COOOUUUGGGAAAAAAAAAARRRSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!
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| Quote ="Starbug"The only way of stopping that is to increase revenue and to rigorously police salary caps'"
Maybe if looked toward how American sports are managed it could help.
I believe if they put more realistic salary caps in place it would attract more investment in to the sport.
More clubs would have a shot at glory for a start.
Investors might have a chance of getting a return.
A percentage of profit could be allocated to ground improvements, youth development etc.
Having a collective bargaining agreement for merchandise. All kits made by the same manufacturer, with a single online shop covering every club, reducing costs. The profit could then be distributed equally amongst all clubs.
It seems to work over there.
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| Quote ="j.c"what do you do if they keep over spending
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You keep punishing them, they'll get the message eventually.
Their cap would keep getting lower and lower until they reach the point that they break the salary cap and points start getting deducted.
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| Quote ="Stealth Comic"=#FF0000Maybe if looked toward how American sports are managed it could help.
I believe if they put more realistic salary caps in place it would attract more investment in to the sport.
More clubs would have a shot at glory for a start.
Investors might have a chance of getting a return.
A percentage of profit could be allocated to ground improvements, youth development etc.
=#FF0000Having a collective bargaining agreement for merchandise. All kits made by the same manufacturer, with a single online shop covering every club, reducing costs. The profit could then be distributed equally amongst all clubs.
It seems to work over there.'"
You're nearly there , I'll let you know how I go on
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