yes,the british still seem to think they have a divine right to be the best,just cos' they invented whichever game - as we see this is not the case.However,to assume the rest of the world puts the british down simply isn't true - the french have the highest regard for most things british,especially the Premiership football,not to mention RU - peversley,they have the opposite opinion of themselves - they believe they are rubbish at everything so when any kind of sporting success comes along they are happy bunnies - you see,their expectations are lower to start with.

It totally amazes me how the british can put someone down as a failure for coming second !
If my son or daughter came second in one of the most prestigous tournaments in the world I would be the proudest parent around.Coming second isn't a disgrace,is it ?

I bet there are millions of professional sportsmen, women and teams that would love to be bottling chokers like Murray.

How do you know if you didn't watch it?

The British don't think they have a divine right to anything. We just aspire to be the best in everything we partake in although we don't specialise in 1 particular sport like some countries do.

Yes the Premiership is the most prestigous football league in the world (mainly due to the amount of money that gets thrown around there) but yet England still can't produce a 'world class' team from the sport. It is only the best because it has the best players from around the globe. Again RU is strong at club level but we're not the most threatening nation in major tournaments.

You forget to mention our poor attempts at RL and cricket.

We have great sports personalities that do there local towns ans cities proud but when it comes to the big stage we crumble more often than we succeed.

Go on, I'll take first bite....

Rugby Union?.....Last 2 World Cups - 2 final appearances, 1 victory.

Cricket?.....Current holders of the Ashes, World 20/20 trophy and highly competitive at most forms of the game.

Olympics?....Didn't we just have our most successful for ages in 2008?

Boxing?....Several World champions (not bad for a reasonably small nation?)


I think you will find that we are actually quite successful at most sports, its just we tend to highlight our not-so-glorious failures, such as the England footy team......Even Murray gets slated for a credible runners up acheivement, yet if he ever does claim a Grand Slam, you can guarantee the media will find something else to slate him for.

Quote ="J.T"How do you know if you didn't watch it?'" www.skysports.com/tennis/tournam ... 77,00.html Try to keep up at the back. This bit was interesting The Scot has =#FF0000now lost three Grand Slam finals without winning a set, after he was comprehensively outplayed by the Serbian world number three. Djokovic won in two hours and 39 minutes in the most one-sided Australian Open men's final since 2003. I dont see many people on here challenging the bottler bit but i see no arguements against this theory. The only explanation i can think off is that he does not have the stamina for a two week tournamant. Yet in the Australian open he had a fairly easy ride other than his semi which was 4 sets before that he seemed to win comfortably. I dont think he dropped a set in his first three games. Maybe he will win a grand slam title one day but he will need to learn how to win a set first.

Quote ="J.T"How do you know if you didn't watch it?'" www.skysports.com/tennis/tournam ... 77,00.html Try to keep up at the back. This bit was interesting The Scot has =#FF0000now lost three Grand Slam finals without winning a set, after he was comprehensively outplayed by the Serbian world number three. Djokovic won in two hours and 39 minutes in the most one-sided Australian Open men's final since 2003. I dont see many people on here challenging the bottler bit but i see no arguements against this theory. The only explanation i can think off is that he does not have the stamina for a two week tournamant. Yet in the Australian open he had a fairly easy ride other than his semi which was 4 sets before that he seemed to win comfortably. I dont think he dropped a set in his first three games. Maybe he will win a grand slam title one day but he will need to learn how to win a set first.

Can you put together a coherent arguement other than misquoting posts and doing smileys

I think you are probably right in that Murray definitely has to learn how to raise his game for a Slam final, however, probably the most pertinent aspect of your post was the bit which states Djokovic's world ranking.

Murray, while he has never reached his peak in a final, has been unfortunate to meet players of a higher ranking, who were at the very top of their game.

Federer, in the US and Aussie Open finals against Murray, was simply awesome in both....No player on earth would have took a set off him in either (that includes Nadal).

Djokovic, whilst not as masterful as Federer, is a player currently playing the best tennis of his life, as Federer himself found out in the semi.

Ultimately, world rankings don't lie and Murray's best chance of victory in a major will come about when he either improves further or is lucky enough to find himself opposite a lower ranked player in the final.

There's no point arguing with the dense, who rely on secondary sources as the basis of their "arguments".

Also your spelling and grammar is nothing short of diabolical, so I'd prefer not to read your bleating anymore.

So he was outplayed by a higher ranked player doesn't sound like a bottler to me. Now if he'd lost to someone outside of the top 10 in a grand slam final then you might have a point.

OOH look at her



The press is a secondary source

, short of being there what would be a primary source. ( i did watch some of it by the way as the wife likes tennis).

Then we have the last refuge of a forum scoundrel, " i have no arguement so i will criticise spelling and grammar".

So far we have smileys, a misquote and a criticism of grammar, we have no points of discussion from you.

Your a bit like the mouthy kid who stands behind his mates when a fight is brewing saying, " go on start it"


Go on get back to your barbie dolls.

There is no argument needed with a clueless hypocrite like you. You have already made a fool of yourself on this thread, me and my fellow sane posters respect Murray for all he has achieved and realize that although he put up a fight, today was never going to be his day.

But hey, feel free to continue to rely on your second-hand/made up accounts on what actually happened

And yes, of course I live in London, did you manage to get that from the "Location: Maidstone, Kent" that has been staring you in the face throughout this thread?

it's great to aspire to be the best,just like every sportsperson should do from whichever country tho' I can't think of any countries that specialise in any particular sport as you put it.
I'm not saying the Premiership is the most prestigous league in the world in fact it may be the most popular worldwide because of the money thrown at it but I believe the overall quality of the Premiership leaves a lot to be desired.I certainly think the general level has dropped in the last five years mainy due to the influx of very ordinary players from overseas at highly inflated prices.What I was arguing against was the assumption that the rest of the world has a low regard for british sport and this isn't the case.
I don't believe RL or cricket is poor as you put it - RL will always be dominated by the aussies & the kiwis - the culture is different tho' I don't think the gulf between the brits & the rest is actually not that great - drastically reducing the number of mediocre antipodean imports and bringing in home grown players will,in a few years make us more competitive in RL & football.There is enough talent in britain.As for cricket,winning the Ashes must tell us something surely ?
There are great sports personalities in every country and as I said,why should british teams expect to win when others are trying to do the same thing - no country has the divine right.
What baffles me is british trait of criticising their county men & women when they don't win ! if you want to criticise something then have a go at the relatively poor coaching facilities available in certain parts of britain ie the closure of playing fields etc etc

While you may have some valid arguements. I think you missed the part of what I said in my original post [i'when it comes to the big stage we crumble more often than we succeed'[/i.

Yes we have had some success in recent years i.e. the RU world cup and the ashes win but statistics show how inconsistent we are in winning these titles and haven't been as successful as other nations in these sports. Yes we gave a good account of ourselves in the last olympics but can we build on that or will we revert back "making up the numbers" come 2012?

And we aren't that small a nation with a population of 62 million (almost 3 times more than Australia) which proves the old saying is right - Not quantity but quality that counts.

RL and cricket is on a average level when it comes to International, just like football we have great teams at club level but don't always perform on the 'big stage'.

I never said British teams should expect to win and I agree with you no country has the divine right to win anything. The British media is a very powerful and influential entity, if we are successful in anything = we are invincble and it was ecpected, if we fail in anything = start a witch hunt (from a media perspective).

As for the home grown talent comment, it is great that we have finally adopted this attitude but on the other hand why has it taken so long to come up with this idea when other countries have been doing it for decades?

couldn't agree more mate - it's just that as an 'oldie' who can actually remember when the only foreign players in the Football League for example were actually Welsh,Scottish or Irish (N & S) with the occasional european thrown in makes me squirm today.RL along with football must severely restrict it's non-british imports - give it time then the domestic international teams will improve for sure.It's not rocket science...

Not really because i know that Maidstone is 31 miles south east of London. therefore it is not IN London.

Your geography is as useless as your ability to develop a coherent argument against my central point that, at the moment Murray is an overhyped bottler. Until he wins something that is all he will be.

I agree.

His mother is still really annoying, though.

why is that ?

she can't be any worse than Jimmy Connors mum surely ?

Durham Giant - The reason Murray is hyped is simple.....His talent and general form, coupled with his world ranking rightly give British sporting fans genuine hope that we finally have a tennis player who is capable of winning a Grand Slam.

His actual Grand Slam record so far in his short career is actually quite impressive....2 Aussie runner ups, 1 US Open runner up, 2 Wimbledon semis....In only 1 of those 5 matches as he been beaten by a player below him in the rankings.

Admittedly, his final appearances have been disappointing, but as already pointed out, on each occasion he has met players on the top of their game....Just like the Giants have found out on their trips to Wembley, when you come up against bigger and better clubs, you just have to admit you aren't upto standard yet.

Maybe one day, both Murray & the Giants will improve enough to gain a big prize?