Look through their team, they have some good solid players but no real stand outs and they also have some very average players who are playing out of their skin. I mean take Coote for example. He was nothing more than a solid player in the NRl, far from a stand out performer but over here he is killing it. Is Holbrook really some kind of coaching genius? Some of the rugby they are playing is top drawer and they seem to be unbeatable when they are at or near full strength. Why are Aussie clubs not knocking the door down to get Holbrook and a few of their players as they would be if it was Wigan?

Or is it just that the rest of Super League is so utter terrible with such low quality personnel that players like Coote and Lomax look like RL wizards?

They don’t. London beat them last week.

It’s a fairly simple formula. Relatively for squad + confidence & belief = wins.

Whilst I think both Coote and Lomax are good players, you've hit the nail on the head with that last para. You only need to look around the league to see that the top players are mainly good to average NRL level players. Austin, Fifita etc never got a sniff of origin etc.

Saints made a couple of astute signings and they've also managed to retain some decent club produced players too.

Not rocket science sadly.

Only 34 players can play Origin; Australia produces a lot more good players than that. Coote is a good player by any reasonable standard. He can hardly be criticised for not being Billy Slater or James Tedesco. He held down a regular NRL full-back position, which is more than ex Man Of Steel Zak Hardaker managed.

SL is a lower standard than the NRL, nobody disputes that. And in SL this year, Saints are the best of the bunch. Not by a massive amount, but they are. Buttressed by the fact they have a fairly settled squad and a smart coach.

Justin Holbrook

They sent a depleted team.

I had a little insight last year into the Saints club and was impressed with the attitude of the coaches, really positive and a sense of togetherness with the squad.

If they can keep relatively injury free they should win the GF. If not that will be their undoing as other than their first 18/20 players they are quite poor.

If we manage to play a knock out game against us I still wouldn’t write us off. They’ve lost pretty much every semi final they’ve played in the last 8 years.

The Saints front row (in addition to their fantastic coach) show just how important controlling that area is. In Walmsley, Roby and Thompson they have an international class front row that is winning pretty much every forward battle hands down. It’s buying space for their backs and making even average Joes like Grace and Fages look like superstars. At the back of that front row is a bog average second row also but again they feed of that World Class front row and the game is easy for them.

The coach is the main man though. He’s done an amazing job and he’ll clean up the three trophies this year with no fuss. Once he goes back to Australia and Roby retires, it’ll be interesting to see how they can recover. Things can change very quickly as we’re seeing at the moment.

My question though is how do Saints hang on to that front row whilst we couldnt even keep hold of Sutton?

It's hard not to see Thompson heading for the NRL.

Because they've haven't been as successful as the Wigan lads. If they win the league this year then there's obviously going to be more of a spotlight on them, but at the moment they've only flattered to deceive.

Holbrook has turned them around, but he hasn't won anything - as an example Madge had already won a GF by the end of his first season.

Budgie, Sutton, Bateman, Gildart etc have all won a couple of GFs, the Saints guys haven't. If I was a scout I'd go for the guys playing big roles in winning sides and it seems like that's what they've done;



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Its very easy to look unbeatable when the standard from 3rd downward is utter garbage. The only time Saints will break sweat this season is when they play Warrington or send their reserves out to play any other side.

They looked unbeatable this time last season and ended up with a dinner plate.

Saints and Warrington can't keep on bottling the big prize.

Saints crabbed it in 2014 (and they know they did) - but even that is five years ago, while Wire have now blown four finals.

It will be a miracle of self-destruction if one of those two doesn't win it this year. Not just because they are both pretty decent teams, but because there is literally no one else. In general terms this is surely the worst Super League in terms of quality that I've ever seen. Hull, who are currently 3rd, are capable of looking good one week and losing by 60 the next. Catalan, who are 4th, saved a total comedy performance for their big return home last night; on paper they should have beaten cellar-dwellers London by 30.

If Saints and Wire don't divide up the silverware this season, they want shooting.

Coote and Lomax are good players, and are playing behind a great pack, Walmsley and Thompson are in the top 5 props in the league, a lot would argue the best 2. They have no glaring weaknesses and confidence is high meaning everyone is playing at a high level almost every week and when reserves have to come in it makes their job much easier and they can slot in with no problem.
This is a similar case to last year and they are not unbeatable as Catalans and Warrington proved in big games and they ended up winning nothing but the plate....fingers crossed that happens again although I doubt we will be there to pick up the pieces like last year.

Its more to do with the culture and ethics of the club, Cunningham fragmented that during his coaching years, Holbrook has brought it back and the whole club from the scholarship/academy/womens/first teams have all bought into it. Longy has had a big influence on our attacking shape with Wellens adding his two penneth with defence.

We only have a few average players but it a pretty good mix of average to outstanding throughout the squad which is giving us a bit more quality in depth when injuries bite, the latter has not been as bad as other teams because our conditioning chaps are doing a pretty good job at the moment.

If you watch the highlights of Saints v Hudds all of Makinson's tries come from "the move".
They haven't reinvented the wheel, Lomax misses his lead runner, it goes out the back to Coote who throws the cutout pass to Makinson. Absolute credit to them they've got the timing on it down to a tee and we all know how bloody difficult it is to stop when it's executed well.
One thing though, Coote's got that much faith in Makinson being where he should be he's practically passing without looking, it's begging for an interception if your centre/winger hold there nerve and with Farrell/Williams defending that side there's no reason for Gildart/Burgess to jump in like the Hoods defenders were doing. They could fill their boots if they're switched on.

In my opinion the forward 3 of Tompson Roby and Walmsley are as good as anything in the Nrl.If miraculously you make the top 5 you wont have the players to reach the final.Watching the Leeds Wigan game on friday proved to me that both teams are so far off Warrington and Saints in terms of quality and coaching.

As Saints were off Wigan in 2014 or both teams in the semis were off Saints last year. Remind me what happened in those foregone conclusions again?

Whilst anyone would concede the likely winners at this stage would come from the two mentioned, this is sport. Try telling Sheffield they had no chance in the cup final against an all star Wigan team that 'only had to turn up'. Unfortunately for them they didn't.

Finally, look at how Saints have gone in the two games they've fielded weakened sides, most recently losing to bottom of the table London. You're going pretty well with injuries so far this season but we all know how quickly those particular wheels can fall off. You only need to go into the matches that matter with 4 or 5 important injuries for the tables to be comprehensively turned. At Wigan over recent seasons we've often had 9 or more on the treatment table so don't think it can't happen.

Confidence is a great thing in sport but there is such a thing as over confidence. You may do well to remember that.

Your good enough to beat a Lam
But were nowhere near good enough to beat the Ape.

Congratulations on winning everything this year.
Oh and PS

Why are fans that haven't been on this site for years suddenly turning up again?
Surely if they are that knowledgeable they'd have been giving us the benefit of their wisdom for the last 5 years whilst they've been terrible themselves?

Oh, and for balance, we went into the game that 'proved we don't have the players' without Manfredi, Davies, Hardaker, Greenwood, Flower etc.. Take the equivalent out of the current Saints side and you lose to London.

They've been hiding with their tails between their legs over on red vee while we've been polishing our triphies. Funny how suddenly they can engage with other fans again isn't it?!

The lock themselves away in the inner sanctums of redvee and only come out when they deem themselves unbeatable

I agree with the points you put phuzzy as the 5 grand final losses to Leeds prove but this team is so far ahead of the rest that it would take 4 or 5 top players to get injuries for us not to make the final especially with the format this year.It definitely favours the top 2 which have clearly been Saints and Warrington.