Just putting it out there to see what the thoughts are of how many of the current squad is or isn't good enough? Remember it's each to there own.

I used to do a thing which I jokingly called the Crunch Test, in which you rate a player roughly as follows: A - World Class; B - Good; C - Useful; D - Average At Best; E - No Place For Him At Wigan.

I'd rate the current squad as follows (all values based on performances THIS season):

Sam Tomkins - B
Joe Burgess - B (but out long-term)
Dom Manfredi - B (but out long-term)
Liam Marshall - C
Tom Davies - C
Oli Gildart - C
Dan Sarginson - D
John Bateman - B
George Williams - C
Tommy Leuluai - C
Sam Powell - D
Morgan Escare - C
Ben Flower - C
Tony Clubb - C
Ryan Sutton - B
Talima Tautai - D
Romain Navarette - C
Joel Tomkins - C
Liam Farrell - B
Willie Isa - D
Sean O'LOughlin - B

I'm leaving out all the other lads, as I haven't seen enough of them this year to make a fair judgement.

It's not very scientific, but from this I reckon the Wigan class of 2018 is mid/upper table standard at best.

without wanting to divert the thread, whats the situation with manfredi now?

He's back on the field training. Not sure how long he has left of his rehab, but he's in boots on the grass at least.

A - World Class; B - Good; C - Useful; D - Average At Best; E - No Place For Him At Wigan.

Sam Tomkins - B to A
Joe Burgess - C to B
Dom Manfredi - E (based purely on his injuries. I’d love nothing more than to see him flying down the wing in the Wigan shirt again)
Liam Marshall - C
Tom Davies - C to D
Oli Gildart - B
Dan Sarginson - E
John Bateman - A
George Williams - C to D
Tommy Leuluai - C
Sam Powell - E
Morgan Escare - B
Ben Flower - D
Tony Clubb - D
Ryan Sutton - B
Talima Tautai - E
Romain Navarette - C
Joel Tomkins - E
Liam Farrell - B
Willie Isa - D
Sean O'LOughlin - B

Edited to my own opinion and adjusted slightly (hope you don’t mind!)

No probs at all. We're all here to chat.

Tony Clubb is better than 'less than average'.
He's got great hands and can run a line too.
For 2019 if I was coach...
I'd play Clubb at 13 prop with hands, use SOL as interchange 13/spine to prolong his career with 3 props on the bench.

I have done the Crunch test as well. Mostly agreeing with the Crunchers original assessment bar a few in bold:

A - World Class; B - Good; C - Useful; D - Average At Best; E - No Place For Him At Wigan.

Sam Tomkins - B
Joe Burgess - B (but out long-term)
Dom Manfredi - E (sadly I think he will be finished)
Liam Marshall - B (his finishing has given some of the most exciting moments this season)
Tom Davies - C (still a C as Cruncher had him but if he got more ball I reckon he'd be up to B pretty quick)
Oli Gildart - C
Dan Sarginson - E (killing it in training is not enough if you lack adequate basic skills and a rugby brain)
John Bateman - B
George Williams - C
Tommy Leuluai - C
Sam Powell - E (killing it in training or playing 80 minutes at hooker is not enough if you lack adequate basic skills)
Morgan Escare - C
Ben Flower - C
Tony Clubb - C
Ryan Sutton - B
Talima Tautai - D
Romain Navarette - C
Joel Tomkins - C
Liam Farrell - B
Willie Isa - D
Sean O'LOughlin - C (sacrilege I know but he just does not play enough minutes anymore)

I am however prepared to give all those (bar one) scoring C or below another chance with a new coach. I just don't know who is being held back, being forced to play a different game than they are suited for given the tactics currently. The one exception to that is Dan Sarginson who I think is fundamentally useless and now has seemingly a glass shoulder to add to his talents. I am not entirely convinced Powell's career can be rescued either at this level but I'd like to see how a new coach would have him play and in what position before I do bin him off!

I suppose I am looking for another "Madge effect" where he came in and took what was 99% Noble's team to another level happening again with new coach.

I'll be honest I was shocked when you brought Sarg back but utterly amazed to think he would shore up the gap from Gelling.

A - World Class; B - Good; C - Useful; D - Average At Best; E - No Place For Him At Wigan.

Sam Tomkins - B
Joe Burgess - C
Dom Manfredi - B
Liam Marshall - C
Tom Davies - C
Oli Gildart - B
Dan Sarginson - D
John Bateman - B
George Williams - C
Tommy Leuluai - C
Sam Powell - E
Morgan Escare - C
Ben Flower - C
Tony Clubb - C
Ryan Sutton - C
Talima Tautai - D
Romain Navarette - D
Joel Tomkins - E
Liam Farrell - B
Willie Isa - D
Sean O'LOughlin - B

A very Average squad really, no superstars, no one a decent opposition coach would worry about individually, and like Wire did at the weekend, shut the left side down, shut Wigan down.

A - World Class; B - Good; C - Useful; D - Average At Best; E - No Place For Him At Wigan.

Sam Tomkins - C
Joe Burgess - B
Dom Manfredi - E
Liam Marshall - B
Tom Davies - B
Oli Gildart - C
Dan Sarginson - E
John Bateman - B
George Williams - D
Tommy Leuluai - D
Sam Powell - D
Morgan Escare - B
Ben Flower - B
Tony Clubb - B
Ryan Sutton - C
Talima Tautai - C
Romain Navarette - C
Joel Tomkins - E
Liam Farrell - B
Willie Isa - C
Sean O'LOughlin - C

Fans need to remember our Props aren't allowed to play like normal props so giving them a D is a bit poor when it is out of their hands due to the game plan

I'm always interested in seeing how our fans rate Escare.

I don't get the hype with him at all. Other than the fact that he's got a bit of pace, I just don't think he's very good.

With a decent run in the team he’d do well. Speed he certainly has got but I also think in the past he’s linked up well and been defensively good. Under the right coach Escare could shine IMHO.

He's a fantastic dynamic player...what I don't get is why Wigan signed him in the first place.
He early doesn't seem to do as well with heavy structures. In Catalans Cas Leeds Wire or Saints he'd be great.

For me he plays his best rugby when Sam isn't playing. Unfortunately that role is limited to him with Sam and Zac doing a straight swap.

Shame...I think Wigan might let him go. I hope he doesn't go Saints.

He hasn't been a 1st choice fullback for a good fe years now, and that's even when he was at Catalans. He wouldn't be 1st choice fullback at any of the top teams, and even before Sam goes, he would be 3rd choice at Catalan after Gigot/Mead.

He has pace I'll give him that, but other than that I'm not sure.

None of the current sqaud would get into the great Wigan sides of yesteryear

You need to read that book again. There are four players in you're team now that would.

So Ian Gildart, Billy Mcginty, Ged Byrne, Mick Cassidy etc were better than say Sean Oloughlin, Sam Tomkins , John Bateman ???

Even the great sides of yesteryear had lesser star names in the sides.

100%

There’s a number who’d in numerous teams that won trophies from the 80’s/90’s.

Have to agree with you,good thread this being honest with each other helps us all see the limits of the current squad.

Good player I reckon but suffers mainly through not being played in the same position.
Played in different positions or not played at all is no way to get the best out of him.

It might have already been said higher up (or not!) but I'm of the current opinion that there needs to be a full root and branch review of the club and the vast majority shipped out and we start again. If the culture "driven by senior players" is as bad as we are being led to believe then having a proper period of transition is acceptable in my eyes if firm boundaries are put in place.

I think it is very difficult to judge the current ability of te squad due to where we sit with our coach.

Wane has brought success but not sure he has managed to bring the best out of the players and with him now going the team is already in a state of transition.

The players Madge took on instantly became better as a team and as individuals. Same at Saints once Cunningham was shown the door.

I personally think the players have stagnated a little and hopefully the new man will bring the best out of them with fresh ideas and methods.

When lauding Madge and his transformation of the team, it's easy to forget that midway through 2010 we "acquired" Brett Finch, Ryan Hoffman and Jeff Lima.... I'm not diminishing his role in changing things, nor disagreeing with you, but these signings may have helped matters...