No shame in that defeat, Cas are excellent. Was more impressed by their defence it seemed like our players were running into concrete for 80 minutes.

Once again a top effort from our patched together team pushing such a good side all the way. Can't wait til we get some bodies back but we'll be ok.

We don't actually have that many missing though. We played pretty much the whole season without McIllorum and Tomkins and look how that turned out. We had our 2 second rowers. Basically, all were missing is Lockers and the 3/4s. Would we have won that by having Burgess and Manfredi on the wings? Doubt it because our props, Tautai aside look like theyre running through treacle and defend like they're scared of contact. Backs can only operate on go forward which our forwards aren't providing and haven't provided for 3-4 games.

Pretty decent team are Cas. Fit fast and work for each other. You wouldn't want to draw them away in the CC that's for sure. A very composed performance and I always thought they had another couple of gears to go through if required.
No surprise at the loss but the non existent form of Clubb, Flower and FPN is a bit of worry even if we had some bodies back.
Young Davies work rate, commitment and self believe is first class.
Escare continues to impress.
Wouldn't surprise me unless we get a few back if we lost the next 2 as well which would put a bit of pressure on in the run in.
Didn't enjoy the result but to be fair can't really knock the effort particularly from the young guys.

Give over. Our best Full Back (don't care what anyone says a couple good months by Escare doesn't make him better than Sam) our best hooker, captain, 1st 2nd and 3rd choice wingers all out, BOTH first-choice centres out. Take that out of any team and see what happens. To have all of our first-choice backline missing against a team like Cas who have such an excellent backline themselves, gives us no chance.

Edit - forgot Bateman of all people. Arguably our best player.

Don't have that many missing?

Sam Tomkins, Dom Manfredi, Oliver Gildart, Anthony Gelling, Joe Burgess, Lewis Tierney, Mike McIlorum, John Bateman, Sean O'Loughlin

All the above would get in that team tonight and would make a difference. I think we were missing our centres tonight.

Isa can do a job and I can't fault effort. Forsyth has been thrown into the deep end and is giving his best. Gelling/Gildart make a difference. Sam Tomkins (despite his recent critics) Sam Burgess, John Bateman and Sean O'Loughlin all make a difference IMO.

Take nothing from Cas. No excuses. We move on.

Tomkins, Manfredi, Burgess, Gelling, Gildart, Mcclorrum, Bateman and SOL, I make that 8 out of 13 starting players, how many have to be out for it to have an effect?

We created chances in that game but we're not good enough to finish them off, I don't want it to look like I'm blaming the youngsters however more experience in the 3/4's we'd likely have finished a couple more off and hen it's a very different game.

Williams though has to how more faith in the kids and stop trying to do it all himself. He's trying to hard to force something rather than just playing his game.

I think they are brilliant, still a bit early to say if they're champion material but they're looking so good at the moment. And being honest I'm not sure if we'd have won that with a full side out but it would have certainly been a lot more interesting.

Agree with your assessment, think Marshall deserves a shout as well thought he was immense under the high ball and did some hard work off his own line.

It's a tough one to take again but personally Iv never been more pleased/optimistic with a Wigan side without a win in 4 games,Easter weekend is massive now and I think Wane has maybe been saving a few back for the saints game.

My point (re: Tomkins and McIllorum) is we can't claim were struggling without them as we've played almost 1 1/3 seasons without them so to consider them reasons why we're not winning is daft. Would they make us a better team? The jury's out but to claim we're losing because of their absence given how long it's been since either of them have played suggests they're not to blame. Sure, Lockers is out but he's a hot and cold player and we should be able to win without him as surely this is his last season. Fair enough we have the 3/4s out and if their tries were all outside I'd say fair point. 2 were down the middle, one was a poor read from Williams and another was an interception. The match was lost down the middle, where were are (to me) close enough to full strength that it shouldn't be the reason we lost.

Cas battered us through the middle, plain and simple.

Exactly, doesn't feel like we've lost 3 on the bounce and without a win in 4. could've snatched points in them all.

Cas were good for the win and deserve their time in the sun. 9 top players out is just too much to compete if things don't go your way.

Thought there was a dubious penalty prior to their first try, need to watch it back though. Their third try we basically showed them the line. The last was an unfortunate intercept. 18 points on a plate.

I'm not too worried, we all know the drill. Come October we'll be walking out at Old Trafford and they'll be polishing their father's guns and grumbling about Wigurn scum

Come on, we're missing our 2, 3, 4 and 5 which always makes a massive difference in yardage in our own end and down the other end in composure and experience in attacking situations at the top level.
However, our forwards didn't stand up tonight, thats why we lost the game. We couldn't control the ruck at all, their speed killed us and their play the ball was far, far quicker than ours. Props aren't doing enough at the minute.
Massive effort again from a young team, nobody can fault it. Cas on fire at the minute and fair play to them whereas were going through a tough spell. The tables will turn during the season, thats where the questions will be asked of Cas. It's still very early days in the season so no team should be getting carried away.

Yes Marshall was very good under the high ball.
I like how Cas play. Quick play the ball, strong forward play and willingness to give the ball some air. They were far far quicker than us in tempo and thinking and like yourself not sure if we would have won even with a few back. If I was a Cas fan I'd be pretty chuffed tonight.
Our props excluding TT and Sutton are pretty useless at the moment which is limiting our ability to dominate the game. TL also not as sharpe as he was and wouldn't be surprised if he is carrying a bit of an injury.

The problem is that we're missing most of our strike players and having to rely on Williams to create everything. Even just with Gelling and Burgess back we'll be massively better.

Not sure I entirely agree.
Our props are very poor at the moment and we are easily dominated. The Cas pack had plenty in hand tonight I thought

Any news on who else is back next week?

Hopefully Powell hasn't joined the list

Oh I agree with that but we've shown before even with a beaten pack we can win because we can create space on the edges from nothing. Our props will coast into the Super 8s I suspect. Only Tautai is showing any fight.

I was really surprised that Bretherton was picked over Navarette. Bretherton carries well but his fitness is really poor.

tough to take, the record books won' show we had injured players you just have to get on with it, although put gelling in at and we possibly win that.

Thought Tauitai was excellent.
Conversely, I thought Leuluai was awful. For a half, he does nothing.

How many money balls to the wingers did we bomb, must have been 5 at least?!

Wouldn't say they were 'bombed'. Most were poor decisions and the winger had no chance.

Wouldn't disagree with that.
We had a couple of good wingers tonight but we weren't capable of giving them any any quality ball to give them any chances

Firstly Cas were better and deserved their win.

Secondly any side missing Tomkins, Manfredi, Gelling, Burgess, Tierney, Bateman and O'Loughlin would struggle to beat the form side in the league.

We were very close to beating Hull and Leeds and had opportunities tonight. I am more optimistic about our chances of winning the CC and GF this season than I was last season when we looked awful at times!

Our worst performance over the four games for me. Whilst Cas are flying high I don't think they played particularly well tonight (they didn't need to).

For the first ten minutes Cas were woeful, but Wigan were clueless. The writing was on the wall, five sets in their twenty and never looked like scoring (shades of last year).

Other than a magic five minute spell on twenty minutes and scoring in the first few minutes of the second half (like Hull did) then there wasn't much from them. They looked the far stronger side though, making 40-50 metres every set.

Wigan's go forward was much worse. 20-30 metres if that. Pinned in own twenty time and time again. Their kicking game was the killer for us tonight. Theirs was very good, ours was shocking....literally shocking.

Our forwards (Tautai an exception) are really letting us down and have done for a few weeks now giving our halfbacks no chance to put any sort of moves on. Our markers were poor at times giving too many easy yards up the middle.

We need a couple of bodies back as soon as possible, do that we won't be far off come Top 8's time.
It is frustrating though 2nd year on the trot we're playing half a team.