After reading Bilko's decision to leave the game for good and this forum and his radio commentaries i agree. The salary cap has now totally changed the game. Every top 8 team is capable of beating eachover and the game is now like the flick of a coin who wins games. The current players in Wigans team would not have got into the old alliance team

. We have referees who dont know if tries are scored when games are on television and are always unsure. The game has penalties given left right and centre for no reason. Salford came 7th this season and now have the chance to be relegated even with a millionare owner! promising to give them glory! cup final with record numbers of empty seats! and the fact that i along with 4 or 5 thousand over Wigan fans have given up watching the team regulary e.g. 15,000-16,000 average down to about 11,000. And now even our very own Bilko is jumping ship! THE SALARY CAP HAS RUINED SL!

It's sad isn't it? The salary cap was brought in to end Wigan's dominance of the game and it was successful in doing so. However it brought Wigan and the other top teams down to the standard of the less successful clubs rather than brining the standard of the less successful clubs up to the higher standard.
Our game is a far cry from the scintillating, fast, ferocious sport it once was and I fear there is no way back.
Some changes are for the better with better protection for player safety but it has reduced the attraction of our great game.

One of my biggest gripes is how long a televised match now takes. Leeds and Leigh were still playing at five past ten last night!

Only somewhat agree with all this. Yes the standard has dropped, but I'd point to over-regulation and seriously rubbish refs killing flow rather than blaming it all on the SC. Our domination (and Bradford's and Fax and Fev's at periods over the last 100 years) are only good for the fair-weather fans and do nothing to actually grow the game. If, as people are saying, that most clubs are now on a level (albeit one that could be argued is lower than it should be) then shirley it's for the controllers of the game to ensure everyone's standards are raised together, not one club being allowed to pull so far ahead as to disenfranchise the rest?
But as it's Red Hall that would be charged with that, I'm not holding my breath.

Agree, it's ridiculous. Though it's not just televised games so not just SKY to blame. The whole game is so slow at the minute. Every scrum takes about 3 minutes to pack down with players taking in fluids every single time, players constantly going down 5m from their line before goal line drop outs, video refs taking ages on decisions, the likes of Gale and Sneyd taking hours to convert a try, the over sanitisation of the obstruction rule, players constantly milking penalties and chatting to refs. All leads to a very dull affair at the minute.

Agreed. The RFL definitely need to look at bringing the NRL's shot-clock in. Would make a huge improvement in most of those areas.

I think there are several strings to this clear decline that we are seeing and ine that it is impossible to deny is happening.

Firstly the cap, clearly designed to make the game more competitive at the cost of bringing all clubs in line with the lowest common denominator.

The lack of top quality overseas stars coming to SL. Those days are at the moment long gone although the marquee rule may tempt some back.

The format, of the season, basically it has aged very quickly and needs freshening up ensuring every game really does count.

The lack of quality coaches in the game with so few ideas. With most of the teams it is as if they are playing the same way they did 5 years ago. No overseas coach has really come in and shaken things up in the same way Madge did and Brown did before him.

Player development. We have major issues bridging the gap from Junior to first team rugby, the Academy comp is also often a mismatch in standard.

A lack of quality administrators.

It is a real worry. It needs someone to come in and really take the code by the scruff of the neck and kick some life back into the sport, Mo Lindsey had his critics but oh how we could do with someone like him coming into the game and dragging it forward rather than have the likes of Nigel Wood one of the most inept administrators in the sport before he took over leading our sport.

The cap plays a huge part tbh. I always said from the beginning that it was a way of dragging standards down rather then up and we're now left with a more even but pretty poor standard of league.

The argument for the cap was that it would stop clubs spending above their means but as many if not more clubs have had financial troubles since its introduction.

If people like Koukash and Simon Moran could spend what they wanted them players like Sam Burgess and James Graham may well have been playing back in superleague and you can add some top overseas talent to that list as well. That would increase the standard of competition as well as putting bums on seats which would in turn help clubs increase their revenue.

The play offs and Grand Final have ruined Rugby League.

My Grandad would agree. After tonight he wont watch any more. He says whoever finishes top are champions and doesn't care about the Sky Sports Trophy.

I don't think so, the Premiership existed in a similar space to the playoffs.

Sky using the game as what feels like a space filler is the problem, they simply don't value the game enough. If it cost them more, maybe they would market it more to make more money out of the games. As it stands I suspect they make a healthy return without needing to spend money on promoting the game outside of their own airtime. So why risk a bunch of cash on advertising when they make a decent margin right now.

The play-offs are consistent in sport. There's only really a few leagues worldwide who use the FPTP system.

Great topic but no simple answer. A plethora of issues within the game none on their own are key critical but collectively they are bringing the game down to the point where I just do not see a long term credible future for the sport. In no particular order here for me are some of the issues that need addressing

Lack of stars within the game. With ST not the player he was I don't think we have one real quality player in the competition. Too many mediocre players and few if any personalities that known outside the traditional areas. The SC has got to be increased.

Too many games that have no importance which leads to lack of intensity and strongly contested matches. Every minute counts my arris.
The magic weekend is an excuse for a booze up which in itself I have no problem with but it adds zero to the sport. Mediocrety is rewarded or at least not punished.

Pool of players to pick from is too small. Historically RU plus Aus and NZ helped fill this gap. This gap just hasn't been filled.

Everything revolves around the PTB. Nothing else matters. Leads to cheating, moaning, scrappy play, lack of imagination etc etc. This is one fault that can be fixed overnight. Refs need apply the rules not just for defence but also attack where no one seems to play the ball correctly or from the correct place.

Lack of reserve team football. The gap from u19s to first x13 is too large. Easily fixed. All teams in SL must have a reserve team and an academy if they don't they forfeit the right to play in the competition.

The current deal with Sky has got be renegotiated. I know the ink is still drying but without increased revenues the game can't attract top NRL stars or keep the few we currently have.

Too many interchanges. Too many Jack of all trade players with zero masters.

Poor leadership from the top. What has Barwick brought to the sport? Wood comes across as useless and unaware of the por quality of his sport.

Exceptionally poor fitness levels. A game now last for 2 hours but most forwards are on the pitch for less than 40 minutes.

No biff anymore. This might upset some but most people want it nay expect it. I couldn't believe it last year when Simms chinned young Williams and not one Wigan player didn't attempt to put Simms on his arris.

Water carriers. I'd gladly see these guys hung drown and quartered.

Coaching. No new newness no freshness.

Sky. Match day ok but all other reporting eg Boots and All has just disappeared. Thursday and Friday matches! Let's get back to Saturday or Sunday games.

Non existent media coverage. This is currently embarrassing but easily sorted with the right expertise in place.

Basic skills replaced with wrestling and moaning. We have "centres" who just can't pass and its accepted as the norm within the game. Mediocrety accepted and rewarded.

I could go on and on. Some are for me easy to resolve whilst others wil take years.
I think the most important is new blood at the top of the sport. We need energy, newness, imagination and raised levels of expectations.
Someone mentioned another Uncle Mo I think we need someone from outside the sport who isn't tainted either Lankie/Yorkie or Wigan/Leeds who will grab the sport by the proverbial short curlies into the future.

Personally I fear for the future unless we get someone from the top drawer to turn the sport around.

Semi drunk random thought.


New concept for the finals.

Straight shoot out for the league title. You win the League, you win the League title. We then enter the play offs. If the League champions win the play off series they become champions. If they do not and another team does win the play offs they become play off champions.

If we have a league champions and a play off champions we then have a 1 off game to decide the SL champions.

Just a thought after a few pints but it would actually mean winning the weekly rounds gives you a direct straight shot at being champions.

From a spectator POV the biggest problem within the game is the ruck. It's a farce. Ball carriers simply die with the ball to try and gain a quick PTB, and then crawl forward to take out the markers. The defenders try and react to this by laying on for as long as possible. Nevermind the cap, fixing the PTB would be the most effective, and cheapest thing the game could do to improve itself in this country.

Overall though I'd say the quality of defence is a million miles ahead of where it was 10-20 years ago. If you look at some of the defensive lines from the winter days, you could drive a bus through them.

I would get rid of sky goone commentators and out two apposing fans do the commentary like they do do on the fan sin in football , would be much entertaining than Stevo and Eddie

I've no problem with the salary cap, but it should be increased by 2-3% per year.
Keeping at the same level year after year does lead to the quality reducing.

Spot on. The ptb is a farce. I used to laugh at RU rucks and mauls and now we have wrestling, cheating, JC impersonators and players just oblivious to the PTB rules

Most if not all sports that use a play off system do so because they have an uneven season. (everyone doesnt play everyone else or play some teams more often than others).

I would challenge people to find sports that everyone plays each other the same number of times and has play offs. I think Union do, but not many others. Have done with magic (make it a cup weekend, either quarters or the round of 16) and then have fptp.

Including the biggest and best league in the pro sport in the world, Premiership soccer. You have never seen the Premiership (or as it used to to be 1st division) champions decided by a playoff . The country champions in cricket are not decided by a playoff either. So two of the biggest pro sports in the UK are not and never have been decided by a playoff and in my opinion that is big reason why many RL fans in the UK finds the concept pretty alien. Who gives a monkey's what the rest of the world does?

Playoffs in sport where geography isn't an issue (as it was in the USA before air travel made it less so, so they needed regional conferences) are simply a product of the marketing men and TV executives who think they can milk more out of the sport at the end of the season. There is no logic that says playoffs deliver a better or fairer result.

The RFL hold a big responsibility for the decline in the sport. First in their eagerness to promote the playoffs and GF concept they actively belittled the league and the challenge cup going as far as not even offering a trophy for the league in the early years. I don't think it has ever recovered from this as year on year we hear complaints from fans that the league is worth little more than friendlies or they are just qualifiers . This also has a lot to do with the format. They got it right at the start with a top five system as out of them all that was the one that meant it really was worth winning the league and if not finishing as high up as you can. They threw it out and instead left us with formats that made it far too easy to win from lower down the league. Leeds winning it twice from 5th was not a great achievement, it was just a huge sign saying the format of the competition was wrong and winning the league didn't matter a jot.

The Super 8's are hardly any better. Half the teams in it this season have literally been there to make up the numbers. Nothing else and of course the preceding twenty odd league games doesnt really matter as soon as you are confirmed in the top 8 which can happen quickly.

Ultimately you cannot get it out of many fans heads the playoffs mean the only games you need to watch are the semi-finals and finals because even if you go to the rest there is no guarantee you will be entertained. Some late withdrawal or other of a star player etc is always a risk. A typical response to this is they don't understand it is all a build up to peaking at the right time and this is a skill in itself but they do understand this - they just realise what that means is there are twenty odd games where any number of them will be chalked off as not that important.

Second the RFL's "whole game approach" is totally unrealistic. I am sure they think because Leigh are promoted the concept works but this ignores the fact that the relegated team will see people literally out of job! I don't just mean the players some of whom will find another SL side but backroom and admin staff as the clubs budget is literally halved. This might be less of a problem if the game was awash with money but the idiots in charge didn't even put the TV rights out to tender so it isn't and they have spread the money far too wide. If you want P&R you need far more money and if you have not got a lot of money you can't afford the luxury of P&R unless you want to revert to semi-pro or even amateur status across the board. We were on the right track with licenses and Widnes are the proof of that but no, the RFL couldn't leave it alone and canned it because they weren't competent enough to administer it.

Thirdly the international game has been neglected in favour of the club game with far too much energy expended on promoting things like the magic weekend and expanding the world club challenge instead of the international game. In part that was due to the move to summer putting an end to touring sides playing club sides (very big occasions at Central Park those) and full test series played alongside and it also meant few top flight players guesting for clubs here or our players doing the same down under. That used to raise complaints they players were knackered but the game coped and it led to a far more interesting sport. However ultimately those in charge have proved poor custodians of the international game.

As others have said the structure of the academy is rubbish with it restricted to U19's. The scrapping of full reserve A teams, then the various restrictions and restructuring of this part of the game have always seemed to be driven by one G Hetherington of Leeds. He bares a lot of responsibility for this and I think I am right in saying when Wigan and other sides have tried to get a reserve league going Leeds were not interested. That is criminal for such a big club so it is not just Nigel Wood the sport could do with putting out to pasture.

You will notice I have not mentioned the salary cap specifically and that is because provided it is large enough and is flexible enough to allow players to earn money from their position in the sport without it counting on the cap as happens in other sports that have a cap it needn't be a hinderance. The reason ours is a problem is it is too restrictive and not large enough because as mentioned above the RFL's lack of brains in not putting the TV rights out to tender and then spreading the cash to thinly.

We also don't know how the relatively poor wages on offer for the majority of RL players compared to other pro sports is simply diverting young talent away before it even plays the game at senior level. I doubt we will see the sort of fanfare that greeted the signing of a young Shaun Edwards again with the kind of cash in offer these days relative to other sports.

I think the game has many problems including the format but if you look they are all self inflicted. If that doesn't mean it is time for those running it to be fired off I don't know what does.

1. Format
The play off format is all wrong, how can it be good that Wigan, Wire, Hull and Saints will end up playing each other multiple times through the season. Add in the Magic weekend and teams can end up playing each other 5 or 6 times in a season - just wrong. Then you have teams who finish fifth and below and end up playing a handull of matches at the end of the season and the play-offs which have no meaning to anyone, again pointless. The regular season does not help - you lose a couple of games - so what as long as you finish in the top eight or even better top four there is no problem about how crap the previous games or dropped points being important so there is no incentive to perform in every game.

2.The actual play - the PTB is a joke (refs can't agree on policing it some do some don't), and don't get me started on players wriggling and bouncing around to try and win penalties (last nights match the Hull winger Fonua did it every tackle, wriggle bounce and moan at the ref instead of getting on with the game). Endless video ref replays slowing the game down, more coaches (alleged water carriers) on the pitch than players even when it is freezing cold! Too many average players lauded as being top stars by the sky muppets.

3.The salary cap has been done to death on here - but if it can't even be raised in line with inflation over the years then there is something seriously wrong.

4. For me the lack of academy/reserve grade is killing the game and is one of the biggest reasons for the slow decline of the professional game, it is no co-incidence that the slaughter of this level of the game has perfectly matched the declining basic skill levels in the supposed top tier of the game (and then we wonder why the Aussies walk all over us in world club challenge/internationals...when it is patently obvious their basic skills/game skills are so much better).

Sadly I do not see things improving as the same tired faces with no ideas or imagination are running things and turkeys do not vote for christmas.

Interesting. Assuming he started watching as a kid, he watched the championship decided by a 4 -16 team playoff until 1970. Long before Sky had even been conceived.

Players cheating all the time has ruined the game for me, coaches calling his players honest, no they aren't! nearly all the basics have gone out of RL, it's become very boring I used to be able to watch a game over and over again not any more,once is enough!

Wouldnt say it was brought in to end Wigans dominance, if anything Wigan dominace had already come to and end when the cap was introduced, although you could argue it may hve held them back in regaining dominance , but would say Saints and Bradford would have a stronger argument for that , it was brought in to stop clubs being foolish with there money , even Wigan overspent and where pretty much bankrupt , I thought it was a pretty good idea at the time but have come to the conclusion that its damaging the game and the standard of the sport, Super league this year has been horrid to watch and we are no closer to the NRL and continually shooting ourselves in the foot when given the chance to catch up.

As bad as wigan are playing this year I still think they will win the GF.

I agree with almost everything else but not your assessment of the format.

In the absence of additional clubs and the player pool to support them the choice is between ending the comp weeks ago or playing extra games against our closest rivals. I've enjoyed the Super 8s and think there's been some great games so I don't see how the sport would benefit from dropping them. I'm not fussed if the last game against Wire was the 2nd, 3rd, 4th or 5th time we've met; it was a great game. Better than playing an uncompetitive game against a bottom of the league side.

As for there being a handful of matches that don't mean anything. That's sport. You will never, ever have zero meaningless matches unless you keep artifically resetting points every time a team falls too far behind to be in with a chance of silverware, and all that achieves is to make the preceding games pointless.

"So long as you finish in the top 8" - that's simply not true is it? Every team was wanting a top 4 finish. getting to the GF from below there is pretty tough now. I for one certainly wouldn't have been happy finishing 8th. Would you, really?? Finishing in the top 8 merely gets you a chance, but not a very good one if you're in the bottom half. teams really need to finish in the top 4 to feel in any way comfortable and to do that they need to make almost all their previous games count.

Dropped points do matter. Ask any team that missed the top 4 or even the top 8. Yes, losing a game here and there can be brushed off, especially for the top teams, because by and large you've won plenty and your close opponents are also likely to lose one or two, but the further into the business end of the season you get the more those points matter both for position in the top 4 and for a chance at winning the shield.