Long gone are the days where 85,000-95,000 fans would pack out wembley to watch the challenge cup final.I have never seen so many empty seats at Wembley for a final! the only good thing about todays game is that Hull beat Warrington

It was a excellent game, but I must agree that it's starting to look awful on TV in terms of the crowd.

Not sure what we can do to address this.

New Club Wembley contracts from next year may help, but yep a lot of upper tier was empty. Shame as it was a great game and spectacle. Still our number one asset.

Everyone's on holiday.

Was at the game . The RFL anounced the crowd as 76k . Never in a million years we were in the top tier on the half way line and it was empty . Even if you take the 10k club Wembley off that total it was still an exaggerated figure IMO. pre match entertainment was poor the whole thing seems to be very downbeat these days. Very few neutral shirts to be seen eithier.

Regards , EW

Increase in prices aswell for tickets. Won't stop me going but a £30 ticket in 2012 was £45 yesterday, that will have an effect. Also in regards to Warrington we have creamfields right on our doorstep which doesn't help our following to Wembley.

I wouldn't be surprised if they included the club Wembley seats given that they were sold but not necessarily attended. The game was a better spectacle for neutrals so that might help next year. Recent years have been disappointing one sided games. Overall though Wembley and the CC does seem to have lost some appeal. Although it is still a good day out to the final for the competing teams although the earlier rounds are increasingly poorly attended. The semi between Hull and Wigan a good example. Many people are away on holiday in Aug as I was for the semi. The CC started to suffer with the advent of the GF, the move away from Wembley and moving it away from its traditional slot in May. At least the product on the field as good this year.

And dont forget the Proms that would have been a draw for potential fans as well. Poor excuse for low turnout, the fabled Wire following never turned up again

The recent ticket price rises are obscene, I was shocked when I saw how much it was this year. Obviously won't put off the committed fans, but floating supporters and the thousands of traditional neutral attenders would be well down I'd think.

This trend started a few years ago. Wembley at one time was awash with shirts from all over RL land, not anymore.

I think it's a combination of factors.

Firstly and most significantly it used to be THE showpiece event of the season, it was played after the league had finished. We now have events such as the magic weekend and the GF as well, this wouldn't affect the numbers coming from the clubs involved but I think it reduces the numbers of neutrals.

Being played in the summer holidays won't help, a fair few will be away, IMO moving it forward to the last week before the holidays start would help.

To answer the question of why do people bother, just go on the Hull board and you'll get your answer.

I went every year for yonks, now I go *most years*. I didn't go yesterday (although I was considering a last-minute trip until the eleventh hour).

As Trainman says, a variety of factors. I don't think there's much doubt that the CCF was much better played in the Spring. Nowadays it's in the shadow of the GF in every sense.

That said, I can't imagine making the much longer journey to OT as a neutral, whereas doubtless I'll be at CCFs in the future.

It's too close to the GF now, they are barely 6 weeks apart. It was perfect when it was in April/May but I guess that coincides with the end of the beloved Premiership and Championship seasons, play-offs, FA Cup final etc. and Wembley availability isn't always there.

I believe all large sports stadia include ST holders and tickets sold in the "official" attendance, rather than how many times a turnstile clicks.

That's the main issue for me. It's difficult for the clubs and it's players but even worse for the fans.

I don't even give it a seconds thought attending the cup final now if Wigan aren't there because I go to every Grand Final regardless of us being in it. I know that the Grand Final day with my ticket and a day session will cost £150+ so I keep my money in my pocket.

It needs to be moved to May/June without any question IMO.

And as for a Spring CCF clashing with Premiership play-offs, FA Cup Final, etc: well, we managed in the past; what's different now?

Don't think it helped the Hull City were hosting Man Utd .

Part of the problem regarding neutral support is that today only Super League clubs are ever going to win it. Consequently a large number of fans have been disenfranchised.
In the past cup rugby was always more intense and brutal than league rugby and the majority of teams had a realistic chance of having a good cup run.

If that's the case, Warrington must have been hosting a combined Barcelona and Real Madrid side, with free entry!

I only ever go when Wigan are playing, but I have noticed that we see a lot less neutral shirts these days, compared to the 80s and 90s.

Was just about to post similar. The Hull following looked very good (although I think they'd have taken even more if it hadn't been for that Hull City game).

I'm all for tradition but does anybody think we should move the final to Cardiff? I think the millennium stadium is a fabulous spot for a big game with it being slap bang in the City.

The capacity of 74,000ish feels a better fit as well. Sometimes you can't always stick to tradition is fit isn't the right thing for the game.

Asked that question elsewhere earlier, I said no, even though Cardiff is much better and nearer for me, and I loved it when the CCF was held there.

And I suppose my main reason, other than the continuity of tradition, was just the media footprint aspect of it. For a London-centric media, a big sporting event at Wembley can't be ignored. A game in Cardiff could be regarded as just another regional matter. Or, worse, be portrayed as some kind of failure of the sport in genera;.

But, I agree the MS is a cracking venue, and the price of a pint more acceptable than in London. Hmm...

Hull have had a good support base for many years and their fans are willing to travel even though their geographical location is far from ideal. I'm not sure why they have such loyal fans but maybe there's something all teams could learn from them.

Those days are not so Long Gone........

2010 Carnegie Challenge Cup
Attendance 85,217
Winners Warrington Wolves
Runners-up Leeds Rhinos

but in all fairness something isn't right the only other 80k plus crowd was the first final at the new Wembley and that involved Catalan so something has to be done to get the neutrals back down there, like they obviously did for that first final.....

NO two clubs will ever fill Wembley with their own fans not Wigan Leeds Bradford Bulls or other Super supported massive clubs.....

on the other hand I wouldn't object to Cardiff in future as a few have suggested but I cant see that happening....

Their support in the semi and the finals this year has been very good. It's always tough to judge what a good away following us for them due to their location but it's certainly looked good in the Yorkshire based games.

They could do with increasing their home support mind. There's no reason why they couldn't average 14,000/15,000 with a successful side.