Once again failure to open a team up despite possession and field position. Widnes were superb fair play, however we have once again failed to challenge a team in defence.

Smith is the worst 7 I have seen at Wigan in a very long time, his ability to come up with a kick that goes straight to the opposition back 3 is remarkable.

If only we had another half with pace, willing to take the line on and a better than 0% kicking average......

I'd take a punt and drop Smith for next week.

Somebody like Joe Mellor?

Smith has been absolutely dire since Green left. Not a single good game since Green left except when the conditions are atrocious and no one can play any proper rugby. When he was called on to make smart passes he sent two of them to the ground, his kicking game was awful, his defence was weak and his decision making poor. He's a sad indictment of what the game has become. He can play to a 'structure' and kick and that's all that coaches seem to be concerned with nowadays; yet when the structure doesn't work he looks like a fish out of water. Not an ounce of creativity in him.
It says a lot when a guy who was starting at prop in our first game is putting out smarter and more accurate passes than an England international halfback.

Is Smith the worst No. 7 at Wigan since Denis Moran? He doesn't take the line on to make any breaks. He doesn't create anything with his passing game and he loses all confidence in the rest of his game when he misses all the goal kicks. He's been mediocre for a long time now.

Like a poor Noble team, no Plan B and as easy to read as Jack and Gill.

Been like this for a few years now, just masked by the poor standard in SL.

Widnes were good though, wish we could attack and put moves on like they do and they looked fitter, we have some chubsters in the team at the moment.

Exactly, Jonh. You have summed up what so many of us have been thinking for several years. It's a pity that SW doesn't share our opinion.
The contrast between the Widnes halves ( ironically, 2 Wigan "rejects"icon_wink.gif was startling and there for everyone to see. I don't blame Lockers as he was playing out of position and filling in at stand off. I do blame Wane for never having given Rocky a chance to play regularly in his rightful position at 6, with George Williams playing in his correct position at 7.
I don't buy into the argument of 6 and 7 now being the same, one playing on the left and one on the right. What you do need is 2 halves who have pace, as well as the ability to take on the line. Any decent half should be able to organise and "direct" the traffic and kick - which is supposed to be the alleged reason Smith continues to keep his place.
This defeat has been coming all season! By the way, who is actually coaching Wigan's backs at the moment? Is it SW? How can a former prop forward do that effectively? Or is it Matty Peat?
We need a backs coach - and have done for over a year.

The club have to replace Deacon as attacking coach. The coaching set up looked good with him and Harris. I'm sure that John Winder and Matty Peet are good youth coaches but will they really challenge Wane to alter his pedestrian attacking style? I doubt it. Win or lose I don't really enjoy watching Wigan play at the moment.

My "Terrible" topic last week stated how dire we are in attack IMO, but we won so I got blasted for my opinion.

This week our clueless one out rugby has lost us the game.

Last week we scrapped to beat an awful Leeds team. This week we lost to average SL standard team.

We have continued this year were we left off last season, same few moves that are now so obvious you see them coming two plays before. Teams don't have to work hard to defend against us anymore.

Yes we are working hard, yes we are defending well, but we need to change what we are doing with the ball, evn if the passes stick we are still predictable, 91% completion apparently in the first half and did nothing with the ball.

I said all this last week but it was shot down because we beat Leeds and you can never be critical when you win. It isn't the defeat that bothers me, it's the fact we haven't changed what we do for about 5 years, its still Madges moves with lesser skilled players.

Our attack looks totally geared up towards having Sam at 1 and whilst he isn't there we just have to cope and try to scrape by.

For me the key thing is performance not results. I have not seen us perform well this year yet despite winning.

Defence you can't fault Wane, but attack......clueless.

No complaints from me, Widnes were by far the better side and fully deserved it. I have been cringing reading certain posts of how we were going to batter them and Phil Clarke didn't help with his jinx again. We really need to stop underestimating teams. Completely took all the pressure off Widnes and let them play as expansive as they liked because in everyones eyes, even the Sky pundits they were talking as if they were the bottom side after a scalp. They are top for a reason and it's pretty obvious why. The speed of their attack is brilliant and their decisive moves towards our line really showed us up. We get within 10 metres and you can guarantee if Tautai or Sarginson take it up they just run sideways looking for a pass that nobody is hitting with any pace. If it goes to smith he stands still until he has decided what to do with it.

I have been defending Smith but if the play maker doesn't create anything then the whole team stops.

Smith - A kicking half should be a leader, he shouts a lot but his inability to play rugby at this kind of level certainly doesn't inspire confidence to the other players.
Sarginson - Sooner he goes to one of his imaginary clubs the better, crap as a centre and crap as a full back. Wakefield fodder.
Powell - Doesn't seem to really do anything wrong but James Roby he isn't.
Tautai - Improved his handling errors but for me he is only fit enough for 20 mins a game, preferably at the end and start of each half.
Mossop - What does he do exactly?

All 5 are weak links - Sam T to come back which is a bonus. Isa and Joel, don't know how the centres and second rowers are going to be rotated but i fear for Gildart when everyone is fit (even though he is the best centre)

Lockers - Machine - I don't see any natural leaders out there to replace him.
Gelling - Brain fart city but prone to moments of brilliance, i can't make up my mind whether i like him or not. Many pro's and con's with his game.
Gildart - Easily the most natural centre but really needs to do some serious gym work.

Give Williams and Hampshire a go outside Tomkins at fullback. I would love to see us give that a go till the second half of the season.

But wouldn't that mean quick, decisive, attacking flair rugby?

That just isn't the Wigan way







We would rather plod through the field and stand still until a gap appears not get created

Won't happen. Wane is too stubborn.

I like that Ben Roberts at Cas, pity as I think he's signed a new deal with them.

Surely IL ( and Rads) must be of the same opinion as seemingly everyone on the forum and realise the limitations of Smith and even SW.
It is ridiculous that Rocky and George have never been given the chance to play together in the halves at SL level. If I remember correctly, Rocky has only played a couple of games at 6 - when Williams was injured.

I don't think Widnes are average. They have improved and played well but what you say about us is spot on. I have been saying it for a while now. Mr Negative and all that, but I think it has stuck out like a sore thumb we play the attacking game one way without the players to do it, yet stick with it. I honestly believe Wane thinks the issue is poor execution and it hasn't clicked with him we either don't have the players to do it or he doesn't know how to get them to do it. He sticks with it and every now and again a win like Leed spapers over the cracks.

We have absolutely no idea what to do in the last 20m. Unless we make a break and catch a defense out of position once they line up it is game over. You may as well give 'em the ball back on the first tackle.

When I say average, I mean compared to the skill level of teams/players of previous years, the skill level in SL has gone down hill quite alarmingly. Madge came in and we were brilliant, everyone else copied. Some teams have taken it further, but we are stood still doing the same stuff, but our skill level and flair players is way down on where we were a few years ago. Regarding Widnes, they have improved immensely, it was a general state of SL comment, not to put Widnes down.

this may be the last season for some of our players but if we dont win anything i think it should be SW's last season as well

Awful attacking display last night, simply awful

Awful last night, especially in the 2nd half. We defended very well in the first half but it truly was a horror show in the 2nd half. Smith had his worst game in a Wigan shirt. However, although it was a hugely frustrating evening watching that predictable attack, we have to remember we are 5 from 6 and Widnes are playing some great rugby. 2 wins over Easter and this will be forgotten but I agree that the attack needs some serious work. I would have taken 5 from 6 at the start of the season especially with Tomkins x2, Williams and Mcilorum out.

Once he has passed the ball he is already looking to set up the next move within the structure regardless of what else is going on so he is effectively out of the game. So offers no support play for example. Now he is either under orders to do this from Wane or this is how he plays the game. Either way it is predictable and not good enough.

Dreading he next 2 games

Wane has gone unless by some devine intervention we get to Wembley. Forget OT Wembley is ILs target.
Personally I would get rid of KR forthwith. Haven't got a clue what he does except sign shoite.
SW will be gone by September so no need to sack him just let time take its course.

Wait until May when we have 6 away games in a row...

You are correct in saying that when Madge came in and that we were brilliant, this is were the Wigan "famed structure" came from. But under Wane this knowledge gained from Madge has been slowly diluted season by season albeit without the calibre of player we had then.
The problem is Sean does not seem to have any idea how to correct it, or what is more of a worry there does not seem to be anyone at the club willing to address the lack of talent.
Or maybe this obsession with an all Wigan raised team goes to the very core of the Club.