Expecting a big night from Ryan tonight

Oh right.

If only there was already a thread concerning Rocky that you could have posted this comment in.

This post has nothing to do with Hampshires face not fitting

I was going to start a thread on him this morning so I'll use this one. I expect to get flayed for this, but I fail to see what lifts him from mediocre to almost God like to many on here. He linked up well for one of the tries admittedly but his kick off was a howler and immediately put Wakey on the front foot, he got in the way of Burgess trying to diffuse a bomb and threw a couple of Gellingesque passes. True, he did manage to catch the one bomb aimed at him (one of their downfield kicks cleared him by 20 metres) but it was in perfect conditions and he still ended up facing his own posts.
Was he in the same Academy side as Burgess and Manfredi? I know he came through with Williams. All 3 look far superior to me and, personally, should Bowen return I don't think we would be too worse off.
I hope any responses are reasoned because I think he is worthy of a debate rather than adulation at this stage. Shaun Wane has been cautious in introducing him and I for one can fully understand why. Next season he doesn't get in for me, injuries notwithstanding.
I'll finish by saying I sincerely hope I have mucho egg on my face at the end of the season!

He was the one I think most was expected of as a junior. But it wouldn't be the first time such hopes came to nothing.

However, I think he should be given more time to prove himself yet. Plus, as others will no doubt say, his preferred position was stand off, not full back.

His looming problem for next season is that both slots will be more than adequately filled if Williams continues to improve. I know Matty Smith should be involved in the mix too but IMO he is safe until someone else develops a kicking game.

I thought the stage was set for a big performance yesterday but he produced the worst performance in our back line.I have yet to see anything which says he is going to be a future superstar but I don't watch the junior games so I'm only judging him on his performances at full back this year and the few he's had previously.
There are however people on this forum whos opinions I do respect and if he becomes anywhere near the player they say he can,we have a superstar on our hands but I do think a lot of people are jumping on the bandwagon and regurgitating other people's opinions of him.

I think many of us can see huge potential when it all clicks. I would have thought that you can't entirely judge a player until they have a few dozen games under their belt, and Rocky is short of that. The key thing is whether he can spot and remedy his weaknesses (with help from the coaches). He can run like the wind and has a great pass on him - his link work is much better than Bowen's. He looks shaky or invisible under the high ball, and makes errors of judgement. Give him a long enough run before writing him off. If he was safe as houses but couldn't run or pass he wouldn't be worth the effort - you can learn one, but only god gives out the other.

I thought his decision making was poor last night, although you could say that about half the team.

I have to say that I've yet to see him live up to some of the OTT fuss on here and elsewhere. Williams is improving and growing into the role but I don't see that yet with Hampshire - granted it's probably not his preferred position.

ATEOTD he's not a 1. His biggest weaknesses are catching high balls which doesn't lend itself to that position.

He's been no worse playing out of position than what Williams has been out of position at 6. Let's not sugar coat how bad Williams was at the start of the season either.

I have zero idea what Wane was on when he decided Williams (a talented 7) should play at 6 and Hampshire a talented 6 should play at 1.

In the modern game, in our structures, what's the difference between 6 and 7?

I must be watching a different Ryan Hampshire, I think he'll be a superstar for years to come. Having said that I would re-jig the team next season by using Smith as a bench hooker and playing Hampshire and Williams on the halves

Quote ="jinkin jimmy"I was going to start a thread on him this morning so I'll use this one. I expect to get flayed for this, but I fail to see what lifts him from mediocre to almost God like to many on here. =#FF0000He linked up well for one of the tries admittedly but his kick off was a howler and immediately put Wakey on the front foot, he got in the way of Burgess trying to diffuse a bomb and threw a couple of Gellingesque passes. True, he did manage to catch the one bomb aimed at him (one of their downfield kicks cleared him by 20 metres) but it was in perfect conditions and he still ended up facing his own posts. Was he in the same Academy side as Burgess and Manfredi? I know he came through with Williams. All 3 look far superior to me and, personally, should Bowen return I don't think we would be too worse off. I hope any responses are reasoned because I think he is worthy of a debate rather than adulation at this stage. Shaun Wane has been cautious in introducing him and I for one can fully understand why. Next season he doesn't get in for me, injuries notwithstanding. I'll finish by saying I sincerely hope I have mucho egg on my face at the end of the season!'" Young players have average games and that's normal. Hampshires preferred position is at #6 but at present he is the best #1 at the club on current form. The kick off was a non event, the problem was the misread / communication between Gelling and Smith or was it just a superb pass, I guess the two coaches will have different views of it. He didn't have any effect on the Burgess miss catch. Burgess had his eyes on the ball all the time and Hampshire ran the block, just an error. I will agree on the flick pass out of the back of the hand, it's a great play when it comes off (v Saints to Charnley a couple of years back) but it's high risk and sometimes the straightforward pass through the hands is a better option. Overall I don't think he had a poor game, but not a great one either. Wane will be fuming over that try just before half time. About 1min 30 to go and Gelling loses the ball, but Wakefield were still 80 metres from our line. Then we give away two soft penalties and our two props (I think) allow a try direct from dummy half. Criminal in my view. Here are the stats for the game. www.superleague.co.uk/report/11188

Quote ="jinkin jimmy"I was going to start a thread on him this morning so I'll use this one. I expect to get flayed for this, but I fail to see what lifts him from mediocre to almost God like to many on here. =#FF0000He linked up well for one of the tries admittedly but his kick off was a howler and immediately put Wakey on the front foot, he got in the way of Burgess trying to diffuse a bomb and threw a couple of Gellingesque passes. True, he did manage to catch the one bomb aimed at him (one of their downfield kicks cleared him by 20 metres) but it was in perfect conditions and he still ended up facing his own posts. Was he in the same Academy side as Burgess and Manfredi? I know he came through with Williams. All 3 look far superior to me and, personally, should Bowen return I don't think we would be too worse off. I hope any responses are reasoned because I think he is worthy of a debate rather than adulation at this stage. Shaun Wane has been cautious in introducing him and I for one can fully understand why. Next season he doesn't get in for me, injuries notwithstanding. I'll finish by saying I sincerely hope I have mucho egg on my face at the end of the season!'" Young players have average games and that's normal. Hampshires preferred position is at #6 but at present he is the best #1 at the club on current form. The kick off was a non event, the problem was the misread / communication between Gelling and Smith or was it just a superb pass, I guess the two coaches will have different views of it. He didn't have any effect on the Burgess miss catch. Burgess had his eyes on the ball all the time and Hampshire ran the block, just an error. I will agree on the flick pass out of the back of the hand, it's a great play when it comes off (v Saints to Charnley a couple of years back) but it's high risk and sometimes the straightforward pass through the hands is a better option. Overall I don't think he had a poor game, but not a great one either. Wane will be fuming over that try just before half time. About 1min 30 to go and Gelling loses the ball, but Wakefield were still 80 metres from our line. Then we give away two soft penalties and our two props (I think) allow a try direct from dummy half. Criminal in my view. Here are the stats for the game. www.superleague.co.uk/report/11188

No difference as they are given the freedom to play if they think 'its on'.

What I will say is it's very dependeny on the players. Did Green play the same game as Smith last season? They obviously didn't so that means you need different styles for your half back combo.

If Smith is to start every game (which he's done for 24+ months) then you need to pair him with a naturally attacking option. Hampshire, imo, is more attack minded than Williams so why didn't he get the first chance?

Wane seems to put stock in everything apart from natural flair.

Quote ="Rogues Gallery"Young players have average games and that's normal. Hampshires preferred position is at #6 but at present he is the best #1 at the club on current form. The kick off was a non event, the problem was the misread / communication between Gelling and Smith or was it just a superb pass, I guess the two coaches will have different views of it. He didn't have any effect on the Burgess miss catch. Burgess had his eyes on the ball all the time and Hampshire ran the block, just an error. I will agree on the flick pass out of the back of the hand, it's a great play when it comes off (v Saints to Charnley a couple of years back) but it's high risk and sometimes the straightforward pass through the hands is a better option. Overall I don't think he had a poor game, but not a great one either. Wane will be fuming over that try just before half time. About 1min 30 to go and Gelling loses the ball, but Wakefield were still 80 metres from our line. Then we give away two soft penalties and our two props (I think) allow a try direct from dummy half. Criminal in my view. Here are the stats for the game. www.superleague.co.uk/report/11188'" Not great but not poor either? I couldn't agree more.

Quote ="Rogues Gallery"Young players have average games and that's normal. Hampshires preferred position is at #6 but at present he is the best #1 at the club on current form. The kick off was a non event, the problem was the misread / communication between Gelling and Smith or was it just a superb pass, I guess the two coaches will have different views of it. He didn't have any effect on the Burgess miss catch. Burgess had his eyes on the ball all the time and Hampshire ran the block, just an error. I will agree on the flick pass out of the back of the hand, it's a great play when it comes off (v Saints to Charnley a couple of years back) but it's high risk and sometimes the straightforward pass through the hands is a better option. Overall I don't think he had a poor game, but not a great one either. Wane will be fuming over that try just before half time. About 1min 30 to go and Gelling loses the ball, but Wakefield were still 80 metres from our line. Then we give away two soft penalties and our two props (I think) allow a try direct from dummy half. Criminal in my view. Here are the stats for the game. www.superleague.co.uk/report/11188'" Not great but not poor either? I couldn't agree more.

This thread seems to be almost an Hampshire knocking thread, comments like Burgess, Manfredi and Williams coming through at the same time as Hampshire and they all impressed more than Hampshire. Another poster says he has not seen anything in Hampshire that justifies the hype currently surrounding him.
Then we get the comment that Williams is coming along nicely, last night Stevo was on all night about how Williams was running the game (he seems to be the new favourite for the Sky team).
I am a Williams fan, but last night was the probably the worst game he has had for a few weeks, he did nothing and this is born out by the stats that Rogues posted.
See below.

Ryan Hampshire 0 1 5 0 1 5 1 [u11 94[/u 8.55 1 0 1 0 0 0 2 0

George Williams 0 1 13 0 1 0 2 [u7 29[/u 4.14 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 1

The stats underlined equate to carries and metres made ,I think Williams was the lowest in the team that started the match.

Williams seems to coast through a lot of games. A couple of kicks to Burgess and that break last week against Warrington aside, I actually can't remember anything else he has done this season.

A fullback is nearly always going to have better stats than a halfback in terms of carries and yards given the amount of kick returns they do. Williams is looking more comfortable in his skin the last fews weeks and is taking much more responsibility. He's developing more than Hampshire at the moment for me but I've already qualified it by identifying that fullback is not Hampshire's favourite position.

Williams isn't going to have huge running metres as a halfback and should be judged more on his assists. He came up with a couple of beauties on Thursday and in general he's growing in to the role because his decision making is getting quicker. He's doing a fine job now IMO.

As for Hampshire, his form has dropped these past two weeks after a very good start but he's young and he'll make errors. I'm still not convinced he's a full back but he's our best option there at the minute.

Both are top young players but both have lots to work on which is only to be expected. You are never going to put two 20 year old kids in the side and have the finished article on your hands.

We need to be patient because the signs are very good.

Some harsh and unfair criticism of Hampshire here. All young players need game time to develop experience and work out how to play against better opposition. He will get that at full back or at stand off.

He'll also make mistakes in either position.

Wane has shown faith in him by playing over a number of games. I dread to think what would have happened if some of the posters here coached young kids.

There's no difference, in fact they might as well rename the positions as the game as evolved when playing with split backs. I still find it amazing that people think there's a difference between the 6 and 7, they should be called something like left half back and right half back, or left and right pivot. It's like when people think Crosby is playing a different game when he's named as '13' rather than 8 or 10, or the centres being called centres when they play one in from the edge.

Green and Smith offered something different as they are differently players, don't know how Williams can be a great 7 and lesser 6 when it's the same position in the way we play.

Because he has to do more when he plays with Smith. You speak as if Smith and Williams don't link up at all. Williams would have been more comfortable playing alongside Green than he has been with Smith.

Instead of positions think about it as roles. Someone had to come in this year and take over the Green role (main attacking pivot) Hampshire for me was more suited to that.

Williams, imo, has the potential to be a better version of Smith but will still need, as Smith does, a 'Green' outside him.

Where's the harsh criticism? I started the ball rolling, giving my opinion that he's mediocre atm and asking where the large amounts of unstinting praise have come from. I asked for reasonable debate and IMO that is what has been delivered by most contributors. I'm sure all of us want him to become the superstar some on here think he's destined to be but he ain't there yet, even by Rogue's own admission and he seems to watch these kids more than anyone.
My opinion is that Burgess, Manfredi and now Williams are currently bringing more to the team and, given that he has had more hype than any of them, I wanted to discuss him as a player. If you think some are being hard on him, what do you think of the poster on the Sam thread who said he didn't want Sam back if it meant Hampshire had to leave? It's that level of praise, admittedly a one off, that's out of order based on what I have seen of him so far.

They only link up when moving the ball across the play from left to right or vice versa. Long gone are the days of Edwards linking up playing off Greg. Green was not the main attacking pivot, he was the first receiver ball player on one side of the pitch with the FB linking in as the second receiver further wide.

I think you're looking at skill sets, i.e. thinking Williams is too similar to Smith. My comment was referring to you stating Williams was a good 7 and not a good 6, when they're the same position. It's not always the man who wears 6 who's has more of a running game, i.e. Johnson a 7 at NZW, Benji at SGI, 6 plays one side, 7; the other. That's the only difference.