Not that long ago we were quite comfortably the team to beat in SL. Reigning champions, best attack, best defence. Of course we eased off towards the back end of the season as usual giving away the shield. However we were at Old Trafford yet again ready to take the crown away from our bitter rivals. They weren't that confident so much so they failed to sell thousands of their tickets in week leading up to the final.

Around the same time Shaun Wane had managed to shrug off his 'ape' jibes, hell....even on the VT forum he was being lined up as the next National Coach

Then....

2nd October 2014

SKY decided to show 'Warriors down under' and it all came crashing down.
I watched it once, found it horrendous. As cringing as the Alex Murphy post match swear fest back in the early eighties. His dressing room comments should have stayed there! He came across as thuggish and very limited.

At the time I hoped it would spur us onto victory regardless.

And then the GF.........

and it's been downhill since then!

Every single game this season (London Skolars apart) Wigan have not performed well), I include Brisbane in that as well. Defensively sound yes but average in attack!


Long weeks & months ahead. Oh well, theres always the cup!

I genuinely expected a roller coaster season but tonight sounds like a car crash.
I can only hope we have reached the bottom of the current form and that we start to improve fast. Fortunately I couldn't make the game tonight!
We need to get back to basics and keep a settled half back pairing and for me that would be Williams and Hampshire.
Next Friday will be difficult and we need to grind out a result with good discipline and an improved defence.
I'm not panicking yet but admit a little she'll shocked with the very poor performance.

Hard to pinpoint but at the minute it looks like the players don't want to play/don't care.

Wane has said it's the worst day of his coaching career. It's time for him to prove everyone wrong but for me the biggest issue is leadership and that isn't a quick fix. We have no one that is willing to step up. Liam Farrell needs dropping and is never a captain in a million years. Bowen has been one of the worst signings we've made recently and then guys like McIlorum, Smith and J.Tomkins have been completely useless.

Having seen the tries from the game, I will be amazed if Charnley is playing next week. Abysmal in defence.

Hard viewing tonight.

I've questioned the discipline and brains many times under Wane and even Maguire but tonight is the first time I've questioned our commitment in 6 years.

We didn't put an ounce of effort in aside from Bateman from minute one and I saw the most embarrassing site I've seen on a rugby league field as Cas scored their last try. Matty Bowen gave up! Totally gave up and let their player round him and rather then hold his hand up he threw his hand to his hamstring and feigned injury. As soon as Cas scored the try he was fine and back on his feet.

No individual is at blame for our issues (well bar maybe the man that controls the budget) but that was unforgivable from Bowen.

Maybe some players don't react kindly to a coach who goes into meltdown with them after every defeat.

The problem is Wane..the players don't want to play for him and are leaving the club in droves at the first opportunity..quite clear to.

Yep what goes on in a dressing room should stay in the dressing room. Think it all went wrong in the 2nd minute of the Grand Final we don't seem to have recovered, ah well I am going to have a week away from rugby see you all on Friday , now that is a must win , can you imagine if we lose that , no I can't either , have a good week sorting everything out .

It wasn't a problem in 2012, 2013 or 2014.

We didn't win everything but the attitude was always as good as any I've seen in a Wigan side and that's including the great ones of the lates 80's/early 90's.

Our years of under investment in the playing staff from the owner are starting to bite. That's were our issues lie IMO.

Not sure if that is the whole truth..SW has always said he wants homegrown talent in the mainstay and i fully agree with that, but his overseas recruitment has been awful....

Not that I think this is the one issue that will solve our current problems but I'm sick of seeing tries run past Charnley. He seems to have zero positional sense this season and is just letting in try after try constantly finding himself in no mans land.

Poor communication with his centre, poor team coaching..

His comeback game from injury against Widnes aside I've not seen Charnley look particularly hungry for two years plus now.

Looks a very run of the mill winger at the moment who's own self worth far outweighs his talent.

Worst of it is, if we can't keep our discipline against Cas, what chance have of doing so against Saints, with thoughts of Ben Flower banging around in their heads?

Have you any views as to why we had such a poor attitude?
I expected a reaction to the HKR defeat and was impressed with Cas last week but I dint in my worst nightmare see tonight's trouncing coming. Like yourself I've become to assume a good work ethic a given at Wigan.

Not so long back Charnley was generally thought of (and not just by Wigan fans) as one of the best two wingers in the country, along with Ryan Hall. Those days seem long gone now.

Pressure for me. Cas got a couple of lucky bounces early doors and from that point we were bailing out and getting nowhere. The attitude was poor tonight but the players are being bashed senseless. Our backs are doing the donkey work that our props seem incapable or unwilling to do and look spent when they get the ball.

There looks to be three or four holes in the team to me that's having a knock on effect.

Yep to be fair I was being kind with "this season". I've been grumbling about it for a while but he seems to have careered out of orbit this year. He looks like he's just started playing on the wing.

I'd say Briscoe and Makinson are ahead of him now and it should be between whose two to play alongside Hall.

Slowly everything that madge installed at the club has been chipped away! I agreed with what jon wilkin said after the souths game about the style of rugby superleague teams play. This "new" kind of rugby wane wants us to play isnt working

I thought pre season that we lack at least 2 props ( one if Mossop proves himself) and our centres are poor.
I would play Sarginson at fullback but lack of other centres means that we won't see that this season.
SW has got to get to basics and stick where possible with a starting 13.
From what I heard on the radio he needs a very serious chat with Farrell.
I don't rate Bowen at all and your earlier comments reinforce my view that I would not play him again this season. His defensive capabilities are non existent.
I would give Williams and Hampshire an extended run at 6&7 but I know that won't happen.

I've never seen a player do what Bowen did tonight not even in 2005 or 2006.

We're a bit stuck at the moment without Lockers or Thornley. If one of those two were available I'd say move Sarginson to fullback but I don't think we can. I'd certainly be putting Hampshire in next week and Williams should be back at 6. That was a poor move from Wane tonight moving him to the bench. He's done nothing wrong and has been far better then Smith. That could knock his confidence.

Bowen for me can leave. Our poorest overseas signing since Doc Murray.

As an outsider, where you've gone wrong is in a lack of attention to player retention and as a result your turnover has been so high that you've got a team full of kids and strangers.

OK, there might not have been too much that could have been done to keep Sam Tomkins from the NRL, but if you look at the likes of Green, Leuluai, Richards, Burgess next year, Joel Tomkins when he went to RU... do you think Joel Moon doesn't have suitors in the NRL? Justin Carney? Do you think the RU haven't tapped up Watkins? The difference is that Wane doesn't seem to have created a club where players are happy to stay - a good environment for senior pros to work and develop - even in the face of other offers. Just saying "We're Wigan. We're ancient and loyal" isn't enough. And if you churn over 6 players a year and replace half of them with kids, however talented, then you're going to struggle.

Last year you had two class players - Green and O'Loughlin - who covered up a lot of holes from the previous churn (plus the league was very weak), but this year one of them's gone and the other will play one game in three...

Yep...should never play for Wigan again.