That performance tonight was awful,as soon as Ah Van went off the intensity dropped,we cocked up so many chances to kill the game off and only have ourselves to blame for not taking the 2 points.

At least you have not forgotten how to act like thugs over the close season.

Started off OK, but very poor in the second half. Discipline looks to be a a problem for us. Faz especially.



Worse thing is, with only 12 men, Widnes looked to be making smarter on-field decisions than we were.

Farrell was the most guilty of ill-discipline in the Saints friendly and looks like he's carried it on into the season!

I initially thought after the game,thank god they didn't have 13 players but I think that was the problem,I think when we went 16-0 up everyone thought it was going to be a walkover including the wigan players!they looked much better on our line and 6 tackle plays were much better.

A poor performance, especially considering Widnes were down to 12 men, lost Kevin Brown and Danny Tickle. Some positives to take from the first half include the link up play between the half backs and our forwards, particularly Bateman. Logan Tomkins looked solid and Sutton put himself about.

We lost the intensity in the second half. The tries conceded were soft. Gelling and Bowen both should have done better in their respective defensive roles. Dropping the ball cold and giving away penalties is forgivable early in the season but our lack of direction in attack, especially with a man extra and some very fortunate penalties is disappointing.

We need to calm down as well. Too many scuffles and Joel's attack on Phelps was just bloody stupid. Teams will wind Wigan up this season after the Flower saga and if we carry on reacting we'll have more red cards than we'll care to count.

Fair play to Widnes though, performed exceptionally throughout, never gave up and Joe Mellor deserved MOTM. Wigan made it their aim to smash him at every opportunity to make him cower. He didn't. Fair play.

All we can say is we didn't lose and next week is an opportunity to improve.

Amen to your whole post especially the bit in bold. If we don't improve next week Huddersfield will murder us.

Bored of Farrell now. You can see it a mile off. He is in danger of becoming a very expensive liability in relation to our salary cap.

Farrell lost us the game with his stupid play but our halves should have won it and totally failed to control the game.

Only positive for me was Bateman who I thought was brilliant and Tautai.

Well done Widnes, Wigan will improve (their discipline needs to), but were lucky the ref left his contacts, judgement and stones tucked into his kit bag. Still the season is up and running

Fantastic fightback by Widnes who deserved two points not one. Smith should have got a straight red and Tomkins sin binned....

Agree with your whole post especially this bit. We could've had at least 1, maybe 2 more tries if Burgess could've caught a pass in the first half (and if Hicks hadn't discovered contact lenses in the off season and seen that forward pass...) but that wasn't why we drew the game. Bad discipline, no intensity and a poor kicking game in the second half - did we even finish a set inside their 20m? It just turned into a boring arm wrestle.

A game we lost last season, so we're a point up on that.
Next week is also a game we lost last season so thats the challenge.

We'll get better.

Agree, Burgess catches those balls and its game over.
It was disapointing that at no point in the last ten minutes did we get into a position to go for the one point and kill the game.

Bateman looked very good for you. Some great footwork for a lad that big!

More of us need your optimism Matty



Also I will need to watch the game again but I don't think the L.Tomkins/Powell interchange strategy worked at all. LT is so slow coming out of dummy half for such a small guy but Powell didn't have any impact.

I'm not worried for the future, there's clearly quality in the side and lots of potential to do well.

But our attitude and discipline were dreadful in the second half. The Smith and Tomkins reactions at the end were embarrassing.

Not impressed by the Wigan team and by that i mean on paper. Pack too small, half backs not good enough and Loughlin will only get involved if you reach the big games.

Likes of Farrell seem to be going backwards far too many penalties and silly mistakes to the lads game.

It worries me as well. I feel the Shaun Wane approach seems to be a lot of aggression in the hit up and tackle. I don't think he wants us to be a team of thugs but a team that are formidable and strike fear. Unfortunately he doesn't seem to have instilled the right mentality to go with that. Once we become aggressive we become angry, our discipline goes to smoke and we end up in brawls.

Either we need to change our mental approach with regards to aggression (I.E. Non-personal, calm and professional with the knowledge that it gains us an advantage in the match, not to make us look like we have the bigger dicks) or we change our approach to games completely.

Can we have pat back please

Good job we don't play on paper then.

You can't even beat 12 man Widnes.

Lucky to get a point in the end.

Farrell is a big liability for you guys. The weakness tonight was the halfs for me, simply did not control the game. Your number 6 looks like he can drive the ball in well but seems to lack the confidence to direct runners or find "that pass". Clubb, Tautai were the only dominating forwards but I was suprised by the lack of strength in the forwards from a wigan team tonight.

Bateman looks like he's maturing into a quality player too.

No doubt you'll still be up there though.

I thought Logan did ok starting but for me Williams is the best option for interchange hooker. Wane has said he is going to stick with Williams at 6 for the forseeable but for me Powell is the best option at 6 (maybe Hampshire but can't see it happening anytime soon) with Williams coming off the bench. If we're going to play with a bench hooking option then at least bring on someone who offers something different to McIlorum, not one who plays a similar style but who does it nowhere near as well.

I don't think personnel is the major issue tbh; if Wane thinks Smith and Williams is his best hb pairing then that's fine, they will take time to gel and improve even if the fans think it's the wrong choice. Ill-discipline and poor completion cost us the LLS last season with several poor away performances towards the back end of the year, and that has cost us 1 point against 12 men tonight. We are simply giving teams too many easy opportunities to get at us with mistakes and penalties.

Our success over the last few years has been built around patient build-up play and setting up excellent attacking structures. We seem to be moving away from that a bit, trying more offloads and short-balls in difficult situations, and IMO it's not working. Step 1 has to be getting back to the low error, high completion rugby that has been the foundation of the Maguire/Wane era. Without question the discipline needs to improve 10-fold. Farrell has tried to add a "hardman" image to his game and it has completely detrimented the overall standard he plays at.

Smith and Tomkins want banning for 1 game at least. Amazing indiscipline just frustration when the ball is dead.

We got totally suckered in to things tonight and paid the price. The lack of composure shown over pre season and tonight is unforgivable. I've also got to agree with what's being said about Faz. This tripe from Wane that he needs to be more aggressive is just that! He's a line breaking back row who plays the game at a high intensity and gets through tonnes of work not an aggressive enforcer. Lads like Joel Tomkins and Bateman have a natural aggression, Faz does not.

In the plus side I thought there were some positives. Joel Tomkins looks much more like his old self with the ball, Gelling continues to grow, Logan Tomkins was busy, Tautai looks a good signing and I thought Sutton was superb and looks a superb prospect.