Over the last few weeks a lot has been made about Josh Charnleys defence,due to the fact that a lot of trys have been leaked on that side.
Myself I think it is a lot more complex than trying to blame it on a young lad for coming inside to soon.
Wigan play a system (which I detest) were on defence one halfback takes the left and one takes the right,in Wigans case Finch on the left and Deacon on the right.
The inword for the last few years has been 'sliding defence',all teams try to use it. In Wigans case though a bit of WD40 may be required because they just cant seem to get across on the right in numbers to equalise the attack.
I may be coming across as anti Deacon but because of lack of numbers when defending that side he seems to be caught out time and time again because of his lack of pace,this was emphasised last night with Hulls first try when J Tomkins and J Charnley were left wholefully exposed.
As an aside the following point may be worth considering,it has been mentioned a lot this season that Wigan are more fluent when moving the ball left as against moving to the right.
I have started to think that this problem also exists on defence,they find it easier to slide to the left but not to the right.
This is just my own obvservation.

You're right. Yeamons try last night was a perfect example of us not being able to slide that way in defence, Charnley was left all on his own to defend a 3 man over lap over the space of 20 meters, the best defensive player in the world would struggle with that. Charnley is not at fault, IMO its a mixture of Deacons poor defense and Joel nt being used to defending as a centre.

Hopefully its an issue they are trying to sort out in training.

It also helps that the wing/centre partnership on the left wing is the best in the SL.

this is one of my major concerns with McIllorum, I have highlighted it on the other thread. The push has to come from the inside this significantly seems to drop off when Tommy goes off.

McIllorum goes for the big hit straight up the middle but his inside push is poor maybe because he is setting himself for the big shot, but the consequence is a slow drift that gets caught out.

On Friday this was very noticeable. Tommy has working his nuts off on the inside push. McIllorum for me is too straight up and down.

You'd blame McIlorum if Richards missed a conversion

I say what I see, I try to back it up with my reasoning.

Yes criticise my view but offer a reasonable defence.

I am used to taking flack for my thoughts on our team for my views after being very critical of Foreshaw and Noble for a long time, but I grow tired of the lack of offering an opinion/argument.

Watch the games, we get caught out more out wide with McIllorum on the field. We without doubt at times on the right struggle regardless of who is inside them due to poor decision making usually from Charnley not holding his nerve, but just compare Tommy's movement in defence to McIllorum.

The inside push comes from the lateral movement of the inside players that noticeably improves when we have Tommy on the field.

Nothiong to do with McIlorum, however much you wish it was. The sliding is fine as far as the right 2nd row, but than loses it's shape with the half back. Deacs too often comes in to take the wrong runner (as he did with that try, when Farrell had him covered), which stops the rest sliding as they're then outnumbered.

The main weakness on that side appears when Hansen goes off, which, coincidentally, is often when MM comes on.

It is common for coaches to say that defence wins games.

It is common sense that the fewer points you leak, the easier it will be for you to win a game.

We are top of the ladder, we have lost 3 games out of 23 and our points against are averaging 15 a game - I dont`t know how many of these 15 points are made up of tries.

Not much wrong generally with our defence then, but you can always point to some tries where the defensive system failed due to one or more players not doing what they should have done.

Also, you should give credit to the opposition attack for sometimes scoring a try that it would have been almost impossible for any side to defend.

I think some people are too critical when the oppostion score a try - it seems to some that almost every try we score is as a result of brilliant attacking plays, whereas almost every try we concede is down to poor defence.

Let`s keep issues in perspective.

A lot of the tries that are scored on our right side is because the left is so strong.
Its also worth noting that Hansen defends our right side, it is much weaker when he isn't there.
This was highlighted at Hull and Warrington, when Warringtons tries were scored whilst Hansen was off for Hock.
I believe that Joel and Charnley are doing quite well as a new inexperienced pairing, but Hansen covers them extemely well as a willing work horse in defense.

Its a fair point and perhaps why Tommy seems so much more noticeable as he is usually in that position when Deacon goes off. Will have to give it a look on Saturday.

Yeaman's try was scored when Tommy was on

Looked at it again on the replay and it looked like it was Farrell who didn't slide.
He was stood legs apart as if they were going to go straight at him.
Thought that was where we were caught out.
Charnley and Joel are not as defensivly good as Gleeson and Goulding last year but that is to be expected.

I don't think Farrell was able to slide across because Lima had been too slow to get back into the defensive line. Farrell still had his man covered so Deacon shouldn't have moved up to take the man. If he had held his position the try could have been avoided. As usual the sliding defence wasn't effective because of something in the middle of the field rather than poor defending out wide. On this occasion it was Lima being slow to get back which caused the problems.

Correct. Farrel is flatfooted & static & Deacon shoots in for a big hit & misses, easy try. HH is a far better defender than LF and it shows.

Good point this but I reckon it's Joel who is commiting himself too soon. He doesn't seem to trust the cover coming across. Until we get the centre thing sorted, we could go back to using a second fullback on the righthand side, playing behind Joel but in front of Sam.

a few of my friends have had the same debates of late...

for me, and my friends would reiterate, i don't solely blame Josh at all and i think for the majority of the "easy" tries we have leaked on that side i feel it is the players inside him who have not been in the right positions they should be which in turn has left josh with a lot to do and very little time to do it in. i think he's done pretty well considering and i don't think its fair to say he's no good in defence.

joel still is not a centre if you ask me and as soon as the hoff disappears next year he'll be back in the forwards. think about it, last year we had gleeson and goulding on that side, now we have a covering centre and another young lad who for me isn't doing too badly considering.

don't get me wrong, in attack the partnership between joel and josh can work quite well when joel decides to pass to him instead of running outside him. josh is doing the only other thing he can do when he is in the team and that is score tries or contribute to them.

as for the defence of the team in general, i think they are all as equally to blame of late for some of the tries that really the wigan side we know won the league last year wouldn't normally concede. but again, i blame fatigue quite a bit too. hopefully some of our regulars will get at least a week off over the next few league games - maybe not the wire one!

Considering their inexperience, I think they've actually done pretty well recently against some of the best left side pairings in SL. King & Atkins, Yeaman & Briscoe, Cudjoe & Hodgson are all pretty good, and they've scored a combined 4 tries in three games against Charnley & Tomkins.

It's obviously the weaker side. We can all see it and no doubt so can all the other teams coaches. But as we aren't getting hammered every game, they are doing a good enough job for me.

The problem is Joel at centre. He can't pass like a centre, can't read the game like a centre, can't defend like a centre - put it blunty he is sh*t and wasted at centre. This then leaves Charnley exposed who isn't the greatest defender in the world anyway.

A centre to replace Joel is needed for 2012. Joel back into the second row, where he bloody belongs.

It has long been noted that, in general, teams score more often on their left wing than their right. I suspect that this has some bearing, although I agree that our right-side defence does not match up to our left-side.

There are too many examples of Charnley coming in off his wing when he doesn't need to, rather than being forced to do so by a defender further in-field. Coming in to double up on a centre with Joel whilst the winger walks in for a try is unacceptable. Seems like he needs to work on holding his nerve on that touchline.