would you say he was your best goal kicker of all time...

I've been watching us since 1990 and he's the best i've seen by quite a way.

As for alltime he must be right up there but it's hard for me to judge.

Jim Sullivan?

Legend, quality player, and to think when he came over from the All Blacks he said he needed to improve his kicking just to get in the Wigan team. Quality player and a nice person as well.

My Dad places Sully just ahead of Botica.

Botica is the best I have seen.

Thing is, he wasn't known as a kicker before he came to Wigan. He had to do it to get in the team.

Edwards said a young andy farrell was always beating botica at goal kicking at training

got to be

Without question.
And so precise you could tune a piano to his kicks.
A bonafide legend amongst a team of legends.

Still remember when we signed him. First I saw of him was a bloke kicking goal after goal on St James' primary school field on Worsley Mesnes. His kids used to run after the balls and bring them back to him. One of my heroes and a club legend.

Easy Jim Sullivan.

Top League Goal Scorer 16 (yes 16!) times out of 18 full seasons playing at Wigan.
Top league points scorer 12 times.

When you consider he didn't score that many tries to still be top point scorer 12 times highlights how good his kicking was.

Can't really argue with that although in modern times of any side Botica was on his own level. I suppose if he'd have played 18 years at Wigan he'd have done the same probably. Who knows.

Botica for me.

Have to admit I never saw Sullivan kick goals and clearly he must have been good but Frano was a class apart for me, never really forgave Maurice for letting him and Sam Panapa go even though it was the ruthless way Wigan acted at the time - just releasing players before they went past their best - my how times have changed!

Consider the ball they used too, probably 3 times the weight once it was wet through.

And the difference in surfaces of the pitch and the kicking tee and the boots we have now.

Botica was a bit of a machine...



I remember at a similar time at Wire that we had Jonathan Davies, who was pretty decent, but Botica was on another level.

Can't speak for any other past Wigan players coming close to him, but at Wire we had Steve Hesford in the 70's & 80's, who, similar to Frano, was selected mainly for his kicking.

Be interesting to see if anybody is anoraky enough to have any stats???...

Yeah - I remember that famous New Year's day game at Wilderspool where Warrington and Wigan were heading for a draw.

A certain Paul Cullen (if memory serves me right) gave away a dubious penalty then another 10 yards for dissent towards referee Russell Smith. Botica then kicked the goal to win the game. That costly point saw us finish 3rd that season on goal difference.

Of course, many Warrington fans still won't forgive Mr Smith for that!!!

Colin Tyrer was good when i started watching. Used to kick the goals 'toe bung' style with square toed boots from a mound made with the heel.
Botica was class !

What do people think of Botica as an all round player?

Good rather than great.

And that's not a criticism, Botica was one of those who rarely had a bad game (at least once he found his RL feet) but was never up with the really top players like Edwards, Bell etc.

Vastly under rated. Most people talk about him a just a goalkicker but he was far more than that.

Does anyone remember him scoring a try at Saints when he caught the ball on the left wing on his own try line. He moved infield and did a run around with Kevin Iro. He then sprinted the remaining 70 yards to touch down in the right hand corner. The whole move must have covered 150 yards at least.

Lets just hope Roberts does a few of these next year!!

He brought with him a rugby union flair that was about at that time but without the garbage fitness and attitude that was rife in the code at the time.

He was a true pro with a great work ethic. His drop offs always looked like something out of an All Blacks team more a "scissors" than a classic drop off but it worked.

Farrell had more power and could probably kick from further out but as a Saints fan I used to dread Botica's kicking the guy just never seemed to miss, would have loved him in the Saints team back in the day because he was a top player as well as a goal kicker.

Worth noting the balls Jim Sullivan used to kick were a damned site heavier than the moden ones Botica used though .. so I would say Sullivan shades it.

Botica. Even from the touchline you never thought he would miss.

A very solid alround player and very underated.

Won Wigan many games with his kicking.

During Shaun Edwards' (or Martin Dermott's) testimonial, Steve Hampson beat Frano in a kicking competition.