the basic thing wrong is we are lacking a leader as most of us knew when barrett left.smith is a good player but i'm not sure he is a leader.this fault was there for all to see against wakefield when our lineout was a shambles and players were walking round like headless chickens.before the season started brian noble said we would hit the ground running as a matter of fact he said that last season as well.it's still early doors and the team will improve.i for one buy my season tickets for a full season and would like to see the team play the same way.if thats not the case ok next season i will buy my tickets half way through and watch what should be our best games.now back to my original point were do we find our leader is anyone capable obviously our captain isn't.

I don't think we're missing a leader personally.I think we are missing 12 listeners

ok so whose the leader.?

That's it.It doesn't matter who it is.......no one's listening.Smith is the playmaker,and a good one too.He led Parra around by the nose while there.You see him shouting and pointing and talking all through the game,but what good is that if no one is [ilistening[/i?

Sorry pal, what was that?

exactly!!!, wigan used to be a club that made players now it breaks players.....fact!!

Farrell was your last leader, can,t think of anyone who has been a leader since him and that includes Barrett.

Think what you're really missing is more British players who could show a lot more passion. In all honesty can someone tell me out of the 17 players on friday, how many were British?
Noble has this unbelievable belief (considering he is an ex GB coach), that it's better to flood a team with foreigners just like the Bradford Kiwis used to be.

Nationality shouldn't be an issue when picking the team. You pick the best players available regardless. FWIW I would give Ainscough a go over Phelps but he's the only overseas player I would drop at this stage. (Jury still out on Roberts and Riddell).

As for a leader I agree. We are missing some leadership in the pack. Fletcher still hasn't been replaced IMO. We need someone of that type of character.

i am more worried about the club's leader because up to now the quality of our signings is absolutely abysmal, mathers,pryce,phelps,riddell,smith to name a few, and i still can't get my head around the salary cap issue of having just 20k left after all the so called big earners that have left. it's ok to keep saying the club is in good hands but sooner or later the attendances will start to drop if this is the quality of rugby we are going to get. like it or not we are one of the most boring teams in super league.

How can you say Riddell has been an abysmal signing, he's only played two competitive games and looked injured.

Mathers/ Phelps were cheap options as nothing else was available, they were brought in as stop gap until guys like Ainscough can be blooded.

As a group, I'd agree to an extent there is still leadership lacking, we're still suffering from Farrell/Newton leaving, Farrell did everything.

When we signed Mathers, I felt he would be a fantastic signing.

Erm...oops

i know riddell has only played 2 games, but the signs don't look good. why do we have to keep making stop gap signings when there are supposedly young players like tomkins and ainscough kicking their heels. i would sooner have these young wigan lads given a go than some of the dross that is taking the field week in week out.these young wigan lads are only going to improve if they are given the chance.

Which "apparently", is the whole point of the licencing system.

Noble is blooding these young players, others would throw them in sooner and maybe this should happen. It's subjective, it's proven throwing too many kids in at once will be detrimental to the team so it's getting the right balance.

too many youngsters! we are only talking about 2 tomkins and ainscough, how long are we going to blood these youngsters if they never get a game. we are playing with 2 scrums halves at 6 and 7 when we have a potential good young stand off who can't get a game. i am questioning the signings we make if people on here think that ainscough is potentially a better player than phelps, then why are we wasting cap space that could have gone towards a prop which we desperately need.in my opinion the owner and coach seem to be making some strange decisions.

Conveniently forgetting about Mossop, Farrell, Thornley, Holland. Just to name but a few

not forgetting about them at all, it is just at this moment those 2 with the exception of mossop are probably more ready to play in the first team than the other lads you mention. there is no relegation to worry about now so blooding a couple at a time can't be any worse than some of these lot. are you saying we shouldn't play some of these lads?

Brilliant, so if people on here think Ainscough is better than Phelps then we shouldn't waste cap space on Phelps.

Stick your feet up Brian, all you have to do is read these forums to decide which team to select.



BTW Phelps offers versatility and is relatively cheap, that's why he was signed.

Not to mention Ainscough's been playing in the Academy, he probably needs a season in the Reserves and step up to the 1st team in the event of injuries.