Advantage or Problem?

Advantage as we have depth in this position.
Disadvantage as Nobby doesnt drop any of them?

Last year, the top tackler in the competition was Harrison Hansen yet he was started on the bench on Sunday. One of the best impact players Gareth Hock started the game. Doesnt make sense.

Hansen and Tomkins to start.
Hock of the bench.

Bailey needs to improve.

the only problem with the back row is noble. we probably have the strongest group of players in this area in SL

Totally agree I’m a firm believer in Noble but he is handling the back row completely wrong as you highlighted Hock is at his best when he’s running hard at tiring defences, usually giving him the opportunity to offload to support player as he isn't fully stopped. At that start of a match the defence will or should be working at their best and Hock will be less effective. Simple really just play him of the bench coming on for Hansen.

To me it seems like Noble doesnt learn from the season before and has started from scratch again.
The beginning of last year he was using Feka and Hock as starting players and then, as the season went on, started using them as impact players and reaping the benefits from their better performances.
But this season he has just forgotten all that and it appears he's going to have to learn that lesson all over again and waste time rather than building upon what he already knows

Hansen, Bailey and O'Loughlin to start with Hock and Tomkins on the bench.

Correct!

That's how it should be.

Feka on the bench also with O'Carroll or Prescott to start, and Coley in the reserves or on loan until he finds some form.

If I had to pick who I think would be the best back row combination it would be:-

11 - Hansen
12 - O'Loughlin
13 - Tomkins

Hock taking a spot on the bench and maybe Bailey joining him there, that or Mossop/Farrell

That starting 3 gives us 2 top defenders, one one each side of the pitch in O'Loughlin and Hansen and Tomkins comes in as the attacking threat of the 3 picking out opportunities from Loose Forward

There's no way Mossop or Farrell get anywhere near barring injuries IMO. I'd run Coley at second row and use both Prescott and O'Barrel before that.

For me Joel T was one of the stars of our squad to the back end of the season. So I agree think he should play 13 full time and move Lockers to the 2nd row.

Jimmy,
Our worst two defeats last year came with Bailey missing and Coley in the second row.

I really don't like your idea.

Nobles ranking order of backrowers in terms of talent-

1-Bailey
2-O'Loughlin
3-Hock
4-Hansen
5-J Tomkins

actual ranking order in terms of talent and form over a 12 month period-

1-J Tomkins
2-Hansen
3-Hock
4-O'Loughlin
5-Bailey

That imo is how things stand and Noble has the list back to front. It's also interesting to note that Nobbys list goes in age order(as does mine) showing that the guy thinks you have to be experienced to have anything about you.

The 2nd list is genuinely how those lads have preformed in ranking order over the last 12months and the order they deserved to be picked in if you go on form alone and not age, coaches favourites etc etc.

I'm not saying we should pick our backrow in that order as you need to strike a good balance but one thing i'd say is certain is that J Tomkins should be starting and Bailey should be missing out on the squad if your only picking 4 backrowers(like we should be).

Spot on.

It's the old jobs for the boys team selection approach. By the time he's figured it out, once again, the top 2 will be out of sight, once again.

Bailey gets a very bad press by lots of fans - but looking at the stats from the wakefield game on the Sl site he made 39 tackles (missed only 1), far more yards per carry than most of the other forwards and only made 1 mistake.

He may not be as explosive as some would like, but he does the hard stuff - and is one of the few players who knows how to slow the ptb down. This is a very important skill as it means he takes a great deal of pressure off the next defence for the next tackle, allowing them to get set.

He's the sort of player who makes you hard to beat but doesn't catch the eye.

Coley by comparison - as a prop, made less carries, less yards, less tackles and more mistakes- and probably deserves most of teh flak he is getting.

Slagging Bailey off just shows people up for having a very 1 dimensional view of the game - there are far more important things to improve before him.

Imo if you look across the whole squad then we have a very good set of players that should have been more than able to put 30 points on that Wakefield team.

A back three of Richards, Roberts and Phelps is as strong as most in the league and has pace and power in abundance. Back ups of Ainscough or Pryce means we can cover injuries also.

Carmont and Goulding in the Centres are again just as good as any other in the league. Carmont proved he’s a class act and Goulding is just as good as say Gleeson at Wakefield, Gilmour, Talau, Watkins, Yeaman and Sykes.

Tommy and Smith are probably our weakest area but then again I’d say Tommy has the potential to be one of the best impact hookers in the league. A new attacking 6 would transform this team no end as it would allow smith to play 7 and his natural organising game. But again as a pairing there is far worse we could do. (Moran and Orr!)

Fielden and Feka would get in any SL side imo. Feka is devastating from the bench and can change a game in an instant. Prescott needs to get to the level we all know he can reach and when he does he’ll be more than a good player for us. O’Carroll is improving week in week out and had a good WC. If Coley was replaced by someone like Gussiet we’d again have a set of props to match anyone in the league.

I agree with the original poster in that we have the best set of back row players in SL.

11.Hansen
12.Lockers
13.Tomkins

Add Hock to the bench and this set of back row players has everything from speed to raw power and it’s also a grafting back row that will work for 80mins. You couldn’t ask for more

So where is the problem? IL really needs to ask himself;

Are we making the most of their talents?
Are they making progress year on year i.e. is Goulding/Mcilorum better than they were last year? I know under Anderson the likes of Roby, Eastmond and Graham made plenty of improvement under his time as coach.
Are they as physically fit as they can be? Can we honestly say Wigan has the physically fittest set of players in the league? If not why not? We have the facilities don’t we to make them so?
Is the dressing room united? Are the players 100% motivated to go out and do the job they need to week in week out?

I honestly don’t think we can answer yes to anyone of those questions and Noble and his coaching team have to take responsibility for it imo. We aren’t making the most out of the talents and facilities we have available to us because I honestly don’t think Noble has the ability to!

Mark Flanagan should be given a chance. He was brilliant for Fax last year, better than some of the overseas cr@p you got anyway.

We've only got one 'overseas' back row player. Or are you saying he's a better winger than Richards and Roberts or a better halfback than Smith and Leuluai?

To be fair, it doesn't take much to shine there does it?
Fancy Mathers for a while??

Carmont and Goulding!!!! I think your having a laugh to be honest, and Fielden getting into any superleague side, I really think you must be kidding there!

Excellent contribution to the debate there well done....

So come on then you've gotta give reasons why you disagree haven't you? Or are we all mind readers?

Can't believe i'm gonna justify it as it's a perfectly good statement but here goes anyway;

Carmont was the leagues best centre last season. There is probably one centre that’s better than him in SL and thats Gidley. Hardly a bad situation to be in imo.

Goulding is better than Phelps imo and I’ve not seen anything from the other centres that i mentioned over the course of last season to suggest he’s not as good as them.

As a centre pairing Carmont and Goulding is a good one and we could do far worse.

Also can you tell me a team that has four better props than Fielden? He's not the best prop in the league but he's still better than 90% of the others. He's good enough to get in any SL team and if you can't see that then i don't know what you were watching last season? Put it this way I’d take him over Leuleui and Bailey at Leeds and they are the champs. If he would be good enough to get in the best team in SL then he’s hardly a bad player.

Should go with tomkins, hansen, locky, with hock on bench, put bailey back in centres till pryce is fit!

Whoever does the stats got that one wrong for a start, he was skinned twice or do they not count the ones that he never lays a hand on the opposition player, a miss which lead to a crucial try for Wakefield.

I agree in what you say, i just do not think it applies to Bailey anymore, we have Hock and Locky who are more than happy to and capable of doing the dirty work. Tomkins at 13 for his handling. Hock on the bench for his impact, backrow sorted in my opinion.

I suspect Pryce will not be fit enough to play centre for quite some time - probably 1/2 way through the season I suspect his appearance will be on the wing for a while. So should we have Bailey at centre that long - I think not. Bailey is better as a starting 2nd row to keep things tight then interchange wth someone like Hock.

If we are going to make change at centre then Goulding should be given a chance - personally I wqould go with Richards, Roberts,Carmont , Goulding and either Phelps or Ainscough as a back line. With Pryce as cover.

As a big Bailey critic I can't see how supporters can be content with just a good defensive display. You talk about 'one dimensional view of the game' but surely this is what you're doing by being satisfied by just his defensive side of his game? How many times do you see Bailey running good angles off the halfbacks, making breaks, seeing him in space and linking up with the backs? On the few occaisions he does link up with backs he stops the flow of play and fails to create opportunities.

What did Bailey do different on Sunday that Harrison Hansen can't? IMO Hansen is a better attacking player, especially when in close radius to the opposition tryline.

Hansen was sat on the bench for too long on Sunday and it's shame considering it was for the expence of Bailey.