Actually think this is the most rational post on this thread. I was going to post something similar. Gutted with the way we played but it's not the doom and gloom some folk have been saying. This was a big game, but so was the saints away game earlier this season and we did ok in that with some injuries too.

One halfback unfit to play and one still new to the team. Many stupid mistakes early on and defending for ages in our own half on a hot day took its toll. Always chasing after that and simply weren't good enough on the day. Sure we need to be better and soon, but we can do it. A week off will actually do us a lot of good for play-offs with regards to injuries, although would rather be at Wembley.

Also, saying the youngsters should be embarrassed is embarrassing. Wane has debuted about 11-12 this year which is great for the future. Thought thornley did ok considering his experience. Many old pros would have been mugged by Monaghan in that match. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and is free to criticise but just think there has been some over-reaction.

I agree that Thornley did well up against Monaghan. At the moment Monaghan is the best in the league when it comes to catching cross field kicks and yet Thornley did exactly what he had to do and prevented him from catching them.
One of them he was unlucky that he landed on his arm and lost control, but he prevented a try in a situation where the attacking player has an advantage which is what a defending winger needs to do.

Yesterday was one of the worst performances I've seen from Wigan in a very long time - that includes the Leeds SF CC game.

:2hfjyourForwards:2hfjyour
Bottled it. Pure and simple. Mossop, Hansen, Micky Mac, Prescott, Lima and Farrell need to take a long hard look at themselves after yesterday. Did Prescott even play? He was non-existant. The only way I knew Mossop was playing was because of that attempted hug on Chris Hill.

It's a worry for me that in 2 big games this season, CCSF and yesterday, our forwards haven't been there. Does Wane need to keep his mouth shut about our forwards bullying the other pack? Jury's out on that for me, because in every game whether its a big game or a normal league game - the pack should go out there with the sole intention of bullying and dominating the other pack. Do we need another prop or two? Definately. Another hooker to compete with Micky Mac? Worth considering.

:2hfjyourBacks:2hfjyour
Carmont - the only player I can hand on heart say had a decent game. Thornley did OK, his inexperience showed but I didn't think he did too much wrong against Joel Monaghan. Finch should of been nowhere near that team today, it was clear from the warm-up that he wasn't fully fit, and in a massive game such as this going into it at less than 100% is asking for trouble. He was at fault for a few mistakes but he wasn't alone - Matty Smith was woeful.

Our backs needed to play behind a dominant forward pack. Our pack weren't dominant, they were getting bullied. The backs therefore had little to play with - that doesn't excuse the amateur mistakes though - but Finch and Smith looked beaten by the 3rd tackle of our attacks. I'll be interested to see who Wane see's fit to replace Finch at the end of the season.

:2hfjyourShaun Wane it is worrying.

I had faith that we'd make OT and win the GF. I am starting to doubt that faith after yesterday.

Good post and agree with vast majority of it. One does wonder about whether the players are being flogged too hard in training. I'm also concerned about the number of injuries incurred in training too - Lima was out for a few weeks because of an injury that happened in training and is one of the players who has not been as impressive since June.

SW has said that Sam Powell was unavailable owing to injury yesterday - I didn't notice him pick up any knock against Hull, so was this another injury that happened in training?

I do think all the players should be given a break at some stage in the next 3 weeks and hopefully they'll come back mentally as well as physically refreshed. Only 1 game in the next 20 days.

I'd like to see something along those line's too. We look fatigued to me at present. But have the chance and time to get the players fit and ready for the play-off should Wane choose to do so.

Don;t know why people are saying we have lost our 2 biggest games of the season so far. Our biggest game was Leeds in the SF and we lost, after that it was Saints in the QF which we won, then Saints at Standish-with-Langtree Park which we won, then Saints in Manchester. Then i would say it was yesterdays game. Thats 3 out of 5 victories, plus beat Leeds home and away and Catalans home and away. OK we lost at home to Wire but that was only on kicks and Pat was injured. Also beat Hudds away when they were top or 2nd and certainly in form.

The worry yesterday is that our players looked like the team going to Wembley and worried about injury. Our ball retention was awful aswell, and that's a basic. Should we play them in the playoffs we'll be a lot better, i'm sure.

The semi final and Saturdays match were our biggest games this season.

We lost them both !

We won't win trophies playing like that.

They'll get a natural break with the cup final but other then that I think we need to get as settled a side as possible out there and try to build some momentum. We seem to have a minimum of 2 or 3 changes a week at the moment and it's doing nothing to help build players match fitness, form or an ability to play as a cohesive unit.

I cant help feeling there is a bit of an over-reaction to this defeat. Defensively we were pretty good but when you continually turn the ball over in your own half points will be conceded. Our attack was lame but look at the swapping and changing over the last few weeks just in the halves. We had Finch/Tommy then Finch/Lockers then Finch/Smith the Smith/Powell then Finch/Smith again. Add to that several of the team clearly werent fit and we played who I think are the best team in the comp fighting for cup final jerseys, the writing was on the wall before a ball was kicked. I still think we'll get to Old Trafford but we need some consistency in that team. Maybe knocking the full contact training on the head might be start so we arent injuring each other.

I don't understand why this game is being regarded as one of the two biggest all year, it was no more vital than any other league game. I would have said the first game in the season should have been a critical one to set the way that Wigan wanted to go on.

Given the turn over in the halves the last few weeks it's understandable that the disruption will have had an impact. Finch was well off the mark and I don't think should have played, he seemed to avoid taking on anyone all day.

If we had beaten Widnes away, as we should have (no disrespect to Widnes) then the Wire game would not have had the significance as it did. The pressure to win would not have been as important, and maybe we would have played much better?

wonder if the Challenge Cup would have so much value to the Wires if it wasn't the only trophy they were capable of winning??

IF, we had beaten Hudds at home, IF,we had beaten Wire at home, IF, we had beaten Bradford at home...............................................big word IF.

Last season, we won the hub-cap. Whether the hub-cap has any value or not, finishing top means the CC is not the only trophy we are capable of winning. This is clearly demonstrated by the fact that we have won 2 different pieces of silverware in the last 3 years.

Apologies if I have somehow misunderstood the point you were making.

Sorry pal, you are talking e and I think even most sensible Wigan fans would agree with me - You come across as both arrogant and stupid with this whole 'The Challenge Cup is a pointless trophy' point of view.

I think most people, whether they like to admit it or not, would also agree that Wire are definitely capable of winning Super League, so whatever point you are trying to make is utter bollox.

The only excuse I can make for you, is that by your username it looks like you are about 16 or 17, which tells me you are both naive and also that you have been taken in by the Sky hype campaign over the years, that has tried its very best to belittle our sport's most famous competition.

Wire are 'the team to beat' in all competitions IMO and Saturday proved that. They have set the benchmark now of where we need to try and get to this year to win the big one at Old Trafford. There's no point burying our heads in the sand and thinking Saturday was a one off because Wire have been giving it to us for a few seasons now and we'll more then likely need to turn that form on it's head if we want to become champions.

In all honesty the Challenge cup isn't the biggest trophy to win anymore but it's still huge and we'd all give our right arms to be in the final. In the same breath i'm sure the vast majority would rather win at Old Trafford but fans of all clubs would be of the same opinion.

Just remind me, according to IL, how much did Wigan £ lose by not playing at Wembley this year?
Then remind me how much would Wigan £ lose by not playing at OT?

Money isn't for the fans to worry about.

I worry about winning the biggest trophy on offer this season and that's the Grand Final at Old Trafford imo. I loved every minute of wembley last year and it's a massive trophy to win but I loved every minute of the 2010 Grand Final win more! I also loved the constant references in the Media in 2011 stating us as champions which is something you don't get nearly as much with the challenge cup and I also loved the fact we were involved in the World Club Challenge which must bring in a hefty chunk of revenue.

Grand Final everyday of the week but the Challenge Cup is a mighty fine second.

IF someone is required to do the said engraving, remember.....................its Wolves, not Wolfs

We've lost two really big games- Leeds in the semi and last week. Both occasions saw us not turning up and making a catalogue of errors, not fronting up in the pack and failing to get the best out of our strike runners. YET, despite this if we had a different referee in the semi we could well still have won that game and last week at 12-6 heading to the interval, Wire score from a blatant forward pass and their next try comes from the sort of freak error by Smith that I doubt he will repeat if he plays 300 games for us.

In short, even when we are playing horribly, no one is getting away from us, we are keeping in touch with winning opposition and assuming we get Pat, Finch, a prop and possibly Tommy back for the play offs we have the talent in our side to take chances and come through even when we are having a serious off day.

Believe chaps.

It’s that big word IF again! I don’t know about three future silver objects, spanker seems to have a round object now, made of crystal, and he better hope it’s not cracked!

I wonder IF he/she knows next weeks lottery numbers ?, he/she seems convinced they know the destiny of this seasons silverware

Tell that to the Bulls fans. If Wigan didnt have IL they would end up like Bradford, I worry about money maybe you should look at the world around you......

Were taking rugby league here not the global economic crisis. Yes Bradford have stuffed up due to miss management over a number of years and it's sad to see the state theyre in but we have Lenagan so like I say I don't worry about the financial state of the club. It's all ifs and buts to say 'what if' he wasn't here, he is and he manages superbly well.

The challenge cup is a good earner granted but did any of our fans stand at Wembley last year thinking 'get in the clubs just earned £250,000 in revenue'? I doubt it because for the fans it's all about the glory and like I've said I believe there's more of that in winning the grand final then there is in winning the challenge cup.

I'm off now to see how the Greeks are getting on!

why would we?