So Wane was irritated that Gelling wasn't concentrating during a match. Where is the reference to him having a Hock-style attitude problem?

He may have one. I'm not saying he doesn't. But all this proves is that neither you nor I know for sure. So my original question is answered - it is not an established fact.

That’s pretty much the difference isn’t it. Leeds have lost players to RU and the NRL just usually at the end of their contract rather than mid-contract, or they have been antipodean players to start with. Whether you think it is better to see out their contracts or cash in a year or two early is probably personal preference.

It’s a little bit misleading to say other clubs aren’t losing players to the NRL or RU, Leeds have previously seen Morley, Ellis go to the NRL, Eastwood and Buderus get their heads turned to go back, and what were at the time highly rated youngsters in Mathers and Tansey. They have seen Harris, Smith and Walker go to RU, Saints have recently lost Eastmond and Fa’asavalu to RU and Graham to the NRL.

But whilst Wigan are losing player to the NRL and sometimes RU, they aren’t losing massively more than other clubs. Lets be realistic, Mossop is a decent young forward but he probably isn’t going to get to the levels of your Peacocks, Morely’s or Grahams, and Hock is a head case being chased out of the club rather than an integral part of a side which Wigan were clinging on to with their fingertips.

Buderus & Eastwood were both under contract and released without gaining a fee weren't they?

Yep. Well we may have got a bit of cash for Buderus, but not much.

And it wasn't lost on me either.

But then I don't believe RL chairmen indulge in the kind mind games some people seem to think they do and they don't frame everything they say so they can get off the hook down the line. Sometimes things are as straightforward as they seem.

Didnt gelling only arrive on these shores because of an attitude problem?

So what? He has just said he isn't going to sell players to the NRL. He is saying this in the context of the situation prevailing today. Which as we know is a cashed up NRL and he clearly felt the need to state his clubs position on any potential approaches in light of this.

You may be right to take Gary Hetherington entirely at his word here, Dave, and I hope you are ... but I wouldn't put your mortgage on it.

Didn't Hetherington also say his club hadn't had any offer for any player?
It's ok talking about not selling but if a player says he doesn't want to play for your club any more then there's not much alternative.
Lets just wait and see what happens at Headingly if/when Leeds do get offers for one or more of their players.

The problem always arises when the player in question says that he's leaving at the end of his contract come what may.

You can be defiant and hang onto him until the last day arrives, in which cases he walks (having possibly taken it easy for the last six months). Or you can let him go early and try to get either a wad of cash or maybe a player in exchange.

Personally, I think you'd be a fool to not even consider the latter option, as that's the only advantage you can realistically gain from this.

I suppose you could argue that players on long-term contracts ought to be made to honour at least two thirds of those deals, but then you may have the problem of the player not trying very hard, maybe refusing to train, and possibly not even getting selected, which is no good to anyone. The ball is definitely in the players' court at present, but that's the reality of the situation as long as we in GB are the poor relations.

is nobody else genuinely excited to see how andy powell develops? Its not just a publicity stunt seeing as he has signed for almost 3 years.

I hope for Wales' sake in the world cup Powell does alright, I think the RFL should look at bringing Brian O'Driscoll over to Salford to try and generate a bit of publicity for Ireland in the world cup now that he's retired from test rugby.

One has to be slightly sceptical about forwards coming from Union to League and [ivice vers[/ia in view of past examples .

With backs, it's slightly easier to switch between the two codes.

His age is also against him.

Having said that, we need some 'biff' up front and hope this lad can produce some.

I get the skepticism about him just as there is with most signings we make these days. But he isn't coming for an easy retirement pay he could of stayed in union for that. The coaches have got belief in him and more importantly he has the belief in himself. gil dudson and ben flower haven't done to bad in league and i expect powell to be the same.

Wales will have a fair size to there forward this world cup.

Well, I'd say he'll have to spend the rest of the season with the Scorpions to get in shape for RL first. With that and a good pre-season's training, he could then make a big impact next year.

Agree with what you say Ted about the struggle forwards have had in the past, but one name that challenged that theory was Mike Coulman at Salford in the 70s.
If ever anything was against Mike it was is background, he came from one of the old establishment Clubs of English rugby(Mosley) and even though he had 9 caps at RU for England at prop he took to RL like a duck to water.
The idea of English RU props only being able to amble from scrum to scrum was shot to ribbons, he was big, strong and he could really motor.

Edit. Should be a reply to Fleabag and Not Ted.

Given the contracts structure and the ethos Hethrington has put in place at Leeds I have no problems believing he would just let a player see his contract out. Radlinski talked about this in a column in one of the match day programs recently. There was a conference where clubs exchanged ideas and Hethrington made a presentation about the way Leeds do things in this regard. Their players know the wage structure and know what they have to do to earn more money. There is no banging on the chairman's door for raise because of what another player gets etc. With such an environment where everyone knows where they stand I think its much easier to tell a player he's going nowhere until his contracts up then it is at Wigan where clearly every player has a price.

Every player is also replaceable.

Not done too bad the last few seasons have we? Come on Dave it's getting boring this now.

I think most top class flankers and number 8's in union would do very well in league. Basically a union backrow player needs pace stamina and a mean defence. Most that have crossed from Union to League have done well. It's far more difficult for a League player to go to Union due to the more technical element of the game.

It would take a very brave League coach to bring a union back to play in the halves or at 1 in the modern game.

I doubt very much Sam's replacement will be a green union player for expample.

If he was five years younger maybe. If we get two years out of his deal with him as an effective addition to the squad I'd be surprised. Given his vintage it's hard to see past the publicity angle (such as it is when we sign an RU player approaching the end of his career).

On the other hand I have been genuinely excited at watching Burke play this season. What a prospect he is and far more interesting to see how he develops over the coming couple of seasons than Powell for me. Powell is just a short term distraction.

It really isn't saying much trotting out platitudes like that is it?

And what has how we have done over the past few seasons got to do with what is happening now? The quality of the team and the trophies in 2010/11 were great. Since then the squad has slowly been bleeding talent as top class players leave and we replace them with lower quality or youngsters. The new players may still be good enough to keep us high in the league but it really would be head in the sand time to suggest we can lose players like we have done (and are due to) and retain the quality on show. You may be satisfied by being the best in poorer quality competition but ultimately that just masks the problem.

What exactly is it you want? SL isn't what it was, no. But as long as Wigan RLFC are winning trophies then ultimately, that's what it's all about. Blame the salary cap for the loss of young players not IL. Jesus, I'd take a pay cut to go to Australia never mind more money! Not to mention the lifestyle. To blame IL for mossop is ridiculous. As a club over the past few seasons we have won trophies, and developed top class young players more than any other club. Our recruitment under this cap has been 10/10. What more do you want???

Get in shape what way? He's a professional rugby athlete and his fitness levels will be of the highest order.

Union isn't in RL's shadow when it comes to the latest fitness and medical advance's anymore. With Powell being a top RU international and a Lions tourist he will have had access to some of the worlds best fitness coaches.

Let's not forget which sport we got Bitcon from.

What you describe sounds interesting, but doesn't sound as if it would be any more resistant to a massive-money raid by the NRL than the system Wigan use.

The Leeds players know the wage structure and what they have to do to make more. Okay. They presumably also know - or soon will - what they'll have to do to make an awful lot more. And under the current state of affairs, that won't involve staying at Leeds.

As for the stuff about making them sit out their contracts. Let's remember the 'good old days' where players were frozen out of the game, usually because their clubs refused to grant them a transfer. Brian Case was ages out of the game because Warrington wouldn't sell him and he fell out with them as a result. That wouldn't happen now because the player in question would only have to wait until his contract had run out - at which point his club, having had no benefit from him on the field, would gain no financial benefit either. Lose-lose all round.

I'd be wary of using Leeds to illustrate your argument, Dave. It could all come crashing down.

Exactly what I see happening in a PR move as well as a fitness thing.

Happy with the Mossop, Hock and Sam news (rather they went to the NRL than to RU as they'll be better players for it). I'll stay reserved on the Long move.