Green is trying to do everything by himself in attack without lockers and sam in the line. It doesnt help that the last time liam farrell ran a proper line was about 8 weeks ago.

Hampshire on the bench for the final please, Powell and Logan are simply not good enough.

I must have missed something? What exactly did Thornley do wrong? Every time we put our usual play on it went to the forwards? It never really went into the back on his side and I didn't see him miss a tackle. Scapegoat springs to mind. If this upsets a few so be it but the lad did what was asked tonight!

Logan Tomkins is nowhere near good enough and never has been, the only good thing about Sam leaving is that Logan will be going with him.

To me, Thornley seems like one of those players who has always been bigger than everyone and has pace to go with it. Once you hit the first team and find that you are getting put on your ar5e a lot more by blokes of similar size you need something else i.e. footwork or speed off the mark to create space. I find myself really wanting him to do well as he has so much potential but week after week he looks average at best. A season on the wing might do him good.

You are spot on, i watched Green closely and he was terrible.
His passing game was way off the mark, it was either bad timing or wrong options. I thought his kicking game was average and defence at times was weak too.

You have to question our signings (or lack of)

Blake Green
Lauki
Matty Smith


Never anywhere near Wigan standard.

Would never have made the A team 20 years ago.

From an RL supporters perspective that is very very sad.

Green very poor tonight - has been since he came back from injury.
Logan - Isnt good enough to play for Wigan - adds absolutely nothing to the team.
Thornley - I watch him very closely and he isn't as strong as Gelling. Gelling makes a few unforced errors but his game is miles stronger than Thornley.
Powell - I thought he did okay tonight, he looked more dangerous on the ball than when Green had it.
Powell or Hampshire would be on the bench for me at Wembley.

I've written this in the recent past , the current 'team' is the weakest in quality/class terms, that we have had since the very early 1980s.

I would have loved to hear the after match comments of the 'special guests' tonight of our ex players like Billy Boston, Bill Ashurst and especially Andy Gregory, whose language can be a bit colourful at the best of times.

I agree and was thinking pretty much the same thing.

His defence is very poor and it wasn't any better when he had some form in the rest of his game before the injury.

Thornley was no worse than anyone out there tonight. Wane seems to be fu%king with the heads of Hughes Thornley and Gelling, none of them have been given long enough in the position to make it their own, he's often willing to drop them after one game, currently we're operating on a 1 for 1 between Gelling and Thornley, wrecking the confidence of both young men.

It's also difficult to read the game from centre when the halves and FB keep changing. Sam links up next to the centres, Hampshire plays it slightly differently, similar to having a different half on your side of the pitch.

Agreed on Logan, no better than Godwin, certainly not as good as Mark Smith, Piggy or Higham, nor does he show the potential other young players do.

Harsh on Green, he worked his socks off in the second half tonight, doing what he could trying to create something, the SRs were so flat, with that the centres off the SR, there was little to no movement for Green to bring runners into the game.

I don't know why Wane can't coach Wigan without Sam and Lockers, our movement, attitude, and kicking game was that of a lower league team tonight.

2006 v now when everyone was fit:

FB Ashton v Sam
RW Calderwood v Charnley
RC Richards v Goulding - Remember, it was Richards' first season when he was poor
LC Vaealiki v Thornley/Gelling
LW Dallas v Richards - Dallas' last year before retiring
SO Orr v Green
SH Moran v Smith
P Logan v Flower
H Higham v McIlorum
P Paleaaesina v Mossop
SR Hock v Hansen - Hock's first year as a starter
SR Fletcher v Farrell
LF O'Loughlin (he's far better now than then)

S Brown v Hampshire (terrible year for Brown that saw him sold)
S Tickle v Tuson (same as Brown)
S Haegreaves v Crosby/Dudson
S Seuseu v Taylor

Not only is the team now collectively far better than then, it's almost exclusively better man for man. The only swap I'd make there would be Paleaaesina (of 06 form) over Mossop on current form. I reckon we would stick 80 past them if they played. Makes me laugh all this overreaction just because Huddersfield beat us. I remember watching us get beat 70-0 and 75-0 in consecutive weeks. If you had told me then that we would be second in the league with a cup final against mid table Hull FC in 2 weeks, and 6 of the team having won both a grand final and a challenge cup with us in the last 3 seasons, and that people would be complaining after we got beat by the top team during the regular season, I'd have laughed at you.

You are being somewhat disingenuous here IMO. For example not only have you got Richard in the 2006 team twice. And, dare I say it in case Cruncher bursts a blood vessel, Higham is one of the form hookers in the league at the moment. And of course Moran left the building for Dobson.

I don't see any such signings happening next week for us - do you?

That said I am not even sure why you drag up the 2006 team anyway. By the end of the season when we added Fielden and Dobson we were the form team of the league. The fact we missed out on the playoffs was IMO a big relief to the sides above us. We have no form at the moment and we need Wane to sort it out.

Not that old chestnut again.

All that demonstrates is that Superleague's quality has declined.

You obviously think the game has improved ? I don't !

The overall quality has declined.

If you take Sam and Lockers out of our team, we are in trouble. As was shown tonight.

We have lost a great deal of quality talent out of the team over recent years, and it hasn't been replaced.

It's fairly obvious that I just got the names the wrong way round, or did you think we have Dallas now? It's also fairly obvious why I brought up the 06 team in response to Fleabag's comment, because the current team would obliterate it. That's the team we went into the SL campaign with, the fact we had to break the cap towards the end to sign Fielden and Dobson is neither here nor there, use the 05 team if you want, the current team is far better than that one too. Point remains this team isn't the worst team in 8 years never mind 30, so why say so?

*Also, Higham in 06 is nowhere near McIlorum of present.

Do I heck think the game has improved. I just think you're not giving credit to the current team, or recognising how far we have come under IL. Not sure who you expect us to sign, top NRL signings aren't viable anymore, so what can we do but promote from within and sign the odd good player off other SL clubs as we have? I agree we struggle without Lockers and Sam. So would Wire without Briers and Westwood, Leeds without Sinfield and Watkins, and Huddersfield without Brough and Crabtree. That's just the way it is at the moment, a few great players and loads of good/average players

Well it wasn't obvious to me at this time of night (hic). Richards was poor as a centre but once he got back to the wing he was great and that happened the 2006 season so I think you are being selective.



I don't care what team we started with, it's the form of the team we finished with that counts in SL.

And if you think the form of our team [inow [/iis as good as the form of the 2006 team at this point in the season you are deluded.

So we should break the cap and sign Widdop and Crabtree and Tony Smith for coach, just like what we did in '06

oh no wait, you can't win the league if you do that, that's why we only did it to avoid relegation, which is why I discounted it. Like I said, use the 05 team if you prefer, we'd batter them. Surely you don't agree with him that it's the worst team since the early 80s?

I must have missed a post somewhere about it being the worst side since the 80's but I just don't see the point of saying this side is less cr @p then other cr @p sides we have had.

There is an interesting thread on Mike's Wigan message board about who from our current squad would have made the 1985 cup final v Hull compared to those who did play. Answer? Lowest common denominator of two. Lockers and Faz. (and even Faz only got in because he was opposite Dunn who wasn't that good).

Thought you might have, that was what I was responding to. Couldn't comment on 85, I wasn't even a twinkle in the milkman's eye. Bought the DVD this week though, saving it for the 23rd

It's a bit difficult to compare players so far apart in eras, it may be the same rules but it's played very differently now to how it was, from the footage I've seen anyway

But your 'arguing the toss' with Wigan fans who were around at that time and before ?

That's true in terms of how its played but quality is quality. I can't explain why but it is IMO quite easy to compare our current cup final team/squad to that one.

When you watch the DVD you will realise why Henderson Gill got such a big cheer before the game tonight.

I've been watching tv for 22 years, that doesn't mean I know which is best, how it works, or how to fix it when it stops working. From watching rugby since '01 I know this isn't the worst team since the early 80s, because it's not even nearly the worst team in the time I've been watching. I'm sure most fans will disagree with you, old and young.

Logan Tomkins should be moved on the next season. Iv never seen him break a tackle, do anything from dummy half, do anything remotely different apart from run from play the ball to play the ball and pass to the first reciever. He truly is Mr average, I dont understand his contribution to our attack at all.

"lol", Let's repeat shall we for 1993 shall we? After all in 20 years surely we will have progressed.................?



FB Atcheson v Sam
RW Robinson v Charnley
RC Bell v Goulding
LC Connolly v Thornley/Gelling
LW Offiah v Richards
SO Botica v Green
SH Edwards v Smith
P Skerret v Flower
H Dermott v McIlorum
P Platt v Mossop
SR Betts v Hansen
SR Farrell v Farrell
LF Clarke vs O'Loughlin

S Panapa v Hampshire
S Lydon v Tuson
S Cowie v Crosby/Dudson
S Cassidy v Taylor


From an entertainment and class perspective, tell me again how the game has moved on in 20 years?