Tomkins is as good as any second row England have but that really does not say a lot as its England's only real weakness since Hock got kicked out last season. Whitehead has looked good at times but so does Faz against weaker sides. And he is in the side as his defending is better than most of the others. For me i would have taken John Bateman along as cover as its obvious its England's major issue. On one leg SOL is a better player than Westerman.

Also i take it given your judgement on Joel you have seen every Wigan game he has played this season. Same with Whitehead have you seen all of his games.

Was it possible to watch both of these players play each game they turned out in?

FWIW I haven't seen all of Joels games since he returned but on my limited views I wouldn't start him for Wigan ahead of Farrell or Bateman. SOL is a given at 13.

I agree with you. If England had the Joel Tomkins of 3 years ago and Hock at second row then England would have made the final now. Think England have 3-4 second row players at about the same level but none stand out.

The favourite changes that would be made on here are Farrell and Tomkins from the 2nd row to be replaced by Ferres and Whitehead.
Ferres is playing off the bench so is in the 17.
Whitehead misses too many tackles to be considered against NRL teams.
Saints fans think LMS should be there but he gives away too many penalties.
McNamara seems to be playing it tight by selecting Farrell and Tomkins as both miss very few tackles and concede few penalties.

Tank123 will be happy with you. He will definitely consider you pro Wigan. It doesn't matter to him that you give reasons for your selections, only that you don't criticise Wigan players. I don't happen to agree with you in the case of Tomkins and Whitehead but there you are. I am anti Wigan you know.

You say you're not anti Wigan but the above comments suggest differently. How do you recommend O'Loughlin gets back to full fitness and able to play to his 'normal standard' without actually playing? Apart from which, his contribution when on the field was excellent. He made lots of tackles, linked the play quite well and carried the ball up as strongly as any player on the field. He also dominated the ruck better than anyone else in an England shirt. Not bad for a player coming back from injury. He was far from a weak link in any case, which is what you appear to be suggesting. There were far worse players on show who made far worse errors. Strangely you fail to mention those. Care to explain why? You also say he 'gave away too many penalties'. I think I'm right in saying he gave away two, one of which was later ruled by the disciplinary as 'no case to answer'. In other words, he didn't commit the offence he was penalised for. Therefore he gave 1 legitimate penalty away. How do you conclude that he 'gave away too many penalties' without mentioning all the other players that gave away penalties too? There were plenty England players to choose from. Why no Ferres? Why no Burgess? Why no...well I'll stop there as I think we already know why!

We haven't really got past booing Sam Tomkins have we?

Looks like it was noticed

This tournament has changed my opinion of O'Loughlin. finally seen what the Wigan fans have been talking about for years. Great choice for captain after Sir Kev stepped down. Tomkins has improved and for me, this anti-Wigan/anti-Leeds fighting needs to stop. When an England shirt is on, we are all England fans! (from a Leeds fan)

"O'Loughlin "the best ball handling forward in the world" says Jamie Peacock." Lifted from twitter...

Can't disagree with that based on this tournament. He's been superb.

Simply not clinical enough England.

We've had enough chances to be well clear.

Dan Sarginson, man of the tournament for me!

Played very well but wouldn't go as far as best player in the four nations.

Straight forward why England wont progress to the final, not enough Wigan players.

I think with a better scrum-half, we actually win that game.

Feel pretty low at the minute but there has to be some positivity. We could and should have won two games against the two nations people say are head and shoulders above us. I've watched us play against these two over the years and seen us dominated and have to hang on by our fingernails (or just get battered). That isn't happening at the minute. We look on an even footing with them and just need more belief.

We need a breakthrough win but it's a young side and can continue to improve.

Gutted with the result but what a game!plenty of positives and fine margins.All the Wigan lads performed well and Dan Sarginson again played out of his skin.

I agree.

Club bias to one side Smith stifled us tonight and his kicking game wasn't good enough. He was excellent the past two weeks but a good way off today.

It has to be said, even from a Saints fan, that Sarginson and O'Loughlin were superb today. Sarginson has really impressed me and I think he can lose his utility tag now as left centre looks like his position.

Joel Tomkins on the other hand looks way off the pace.

I thought Joel had a better game this week but I was disappointed with Whitehead when he came on.

James Graham has walked player of the four nations for me

That group of players have the potential to challenge the Aussies and kiwis for years to come. But McNamara has taken us as far as he can IMO. There simply has to be a change of coach now.

If the Hall try was correctly given then we would have taken the 2 at the end and been undefeated,very fine margins that we always seem to be on the wrong end of.

Well done to the Wigan contingent. No doubt England best players were O'Loughlin and Sarginson today. Boy I'd love to see Dan over at Leeds linking up with Hall week in week out! I feel proud we're now only a few points off the best two rugby league sides in the world. We need more games of that intensity every year and we'll soon be winning tournaments. Still a chance we can, COME ON SAMOA, WIN BY 2.

Whitehead was pretty anonymous I agree.