I think a lot of people need to read the rules...

Warrington fans are killing me today

Briers?

Sort of the similar I agree it split fans opinions, I wish I'd seen the thread



The main difference is 8 years on I've still yet to see a penalty awarded for that problem, earlier in the same Final Stevo (whose outburst started all the furore) praised Albert for doing the same as Joynt (and Burrow did similar unpunished last night) but we saw two episodes of this incident in one game, its crept in more over the season and until they clarify either way its always going to divide opinion.

However I don't blame any player for doing what Sam is doing if they can get away with it good luck to them its up to other teams to catch on, its only the same of ripping the ball, or being offside that goes unnoticed etc... every team does it at some point every game they play the referee with holding down and offsides and you can bet if he does get penalised for it more than once he'll stop doing it as much.

Sam Tomkins clearly attempting to make up for a distinct lack of physical muscle mass by illegally trapping the defending player.

The player despite his undoubted ability has a much darker side to his game that is gradually being found out despite the cherry and white tinted views of SkySports.

In saying that, fair play to him for continuing to run in back from FB despite being sent into orbit by Ablett and Kylie Leuluai on more than one occasion.

I completely agree its the same but then why is it not a penalty when he does hold the arm, when the ones holding the shirts do get penalised?

Utter crap.

P.S Its not illegal.

without reading 6 pages of clap trap, what exactly has Sam supposed to have done wrong? IMO it was both very clever and extremely skillful to trap TWO international players with what is a perfectly legal move. How many opposition fans will be whinging if he wins a last minute penalty against the Ozzies to win the 4 nations?

I to seem to be struggling with what he's doing wrong and what is he supposed to do? If people remember back to the cup game at Leeds, players on both teams were getting their arm trapped in the tackle and then the ball coming out with a penalty being awarded. How is this any different other than the tackler getting his arm caught where it shouldn't be? Maybe people should stop listening to the commentators who are making it out as if it's in the rule book and saying they can't do it!

Don't make me laugh. Clarke aside you are taking the urine! Hemmings can't stand us and Stevo can't see beyond the end of saints and Leeds

are you suprised, your fans reaction after last night is an example why some may have a problem! very disgracful.

saints lost 3 gf's on the trot. Yes there was some knee jercking but Wigan take bad losers to a whole new level.

So Eddie hates us based on a few fans reactions last night?

If you want to know about bad losers just ask a number of the Wigan fans who encountered a few after the Leeds game at the end of July. Dont be such a hyprocrite.

Do you not do reasoned debate? or do you just post smileys on every thread without offering an opinion?

Says the one who just posted 'Oops' on another thread. Genius, great debating.

There's no point trying to have a reasoned debate with people when they cannot get their facts right in the first place.

It's also not illegal to dive or feign injury, but hopefully we don't see everyone doing that either.

Has anyone mentioned Rob Burrow's voluntary tackle yet?

When I first saw it, I just thought he had slipped. Will have to watch it again to see.

it wasn't a slip as both legs dropped and he fell to his knees, simultaneously!

never a slip in a million years. never seen one given for ages though so no suprise. i'm sure wigan have had a few in recent times anyway so no complaints!

Wigan need to enter Sam Tomkins in the Worlds strongest man competition. If he can hold onto the ball and trap much bigger mens arms then he would be a certainty to win it.

What did you make of the extraordinary number of dummy half runs made by Wigan players at the weekend Rogues? You don't seem to bother mentioning it when it isn't Roby?

until it goes into the rule book that it will be a penalty against you for holding down or trapping the tackler then for me it can happily go on, as far as i'm aware the rules state the tackler MUST get out of the tackle so the attacker can play the ball. correct me if i'm wrong of course!

so for me, i see no problem. it would happen umpteem times against wigan too and of course we'd call for a penalty but they are given no matter what if you don't get out of the tackler. i can't see why fans don't just accept it as one of those things. bad sportsmanship maybe, but technically not against the law of the game just yet, so why not utilise it. there are plenty worse plays a player can do to gain advantage unfaily if you ask me.

PPS It is illegal.

As quoted to me by a referee this morning...

[iA player is not allowed to obstruct in any way a defenders movement. Basically this therefore forms an obstruction. If the referee was confident that the tackled player was doing this deliberately then a penalty should be awarded.

Alternatively he could give the benefit of doubt to both players and allow the defender to 'untangle' himself from the tackled player as the defender is always cautious of inadvertantly dislodging the ball.[/i

I thought that a lot of the time they were targeting markers who weren't square, though Alibert never pulled them up for it.

I remember at least three occasions when one of the markers was in no mans land between the defensive line and the marker position, and therefore in an offside position but still made a tackle without being pulled up for it.

I'm sure that's true. It's just his complaints about scooting and incorrect play-the-balls only ever seem to crop up after he's watched a Saints game on TV - funny that.

Agreed.

The issue of the tackled player holding the tackler, or more specifically Sam Tomkins holding McGuire and Sinfield, is a fairly straightforward one in my view; he was only afforded the opportunity to obtain a penalty when the tackler was attempting to dislodge the ball by sticking his arm in between the ball and the body. When the tackle is complete, it's then the tacklers responsibility to clear the ruck - it's not the tackled players responsibility to make that easy for him.

What you're left with is a mexican stand-off between a player who was attempting the marginally legal act of trying to dislodge the ball in a tackle, and a tackled player commiting the marginally legal act of clamping the interfering arm along with the ball. Both will refuse to be the first to disentangle, as the tackler gives a gilt edged opportunity for the tackled to drop the ball and claim stripping; conversely, the tackled could easily drop the ball in the process and be blown up for a knock on. Essentially, it's a clash of gamesmanship, which Tomkins comprehensively won on this occasion. The short term answer, which Mr Ganson is on record as saying during a match, is to keep your arms out in the first place.

As I've said in another thread; both Leeds and Wigan are teams that play the game at the very edges of legailty and as such, both test the rules, sometimes to destruction. That type of play requires the very highest standard of refeering and that's something that, unfortunately, we simply don't get in SL on a consistent basis and certainly didn't get in this match, which was officiated with an alarming degree of ineptitude.