So now you backtrack.
Has Madge dropped Bailey yet?

Hoping to get in there with Jukesays tomorrow Brian, we'll have a chat.

We'll be there for 1 p.m.
Upstairs in the big room.

How have i back tracked?

Harrison Hansen might not think that Noble held him back but it doesn't mean i agree with him. IMO he was a better player than the one Noble favoured. For me that’s called holding him back.

Again i will ask you about Joel. The question you've sidestepped quite well so far. Did Joel not deserve a starting spot at the start of last season?

In regards to Mini Rouges- I have no problems with Ainscough not getting in the team this year. Roberts and Richards are and always were the better players. People seem to be missing my point regarding Ainscough and my problem with Noble over him.

For me Ainscough earned his place after his performance during the Wakey game and Noble simply dropped him. That for me is unjustified after the way he played. That’s it in a nutshell. It's no Ainscough is better than Roberts or Roberts was poor kind of agenda it's simply about a player playing well and keeping his spot.

But he wasn't playing well though, even though he was scoring tries, had we have lost the game at Wakey it would of been down to Ainscough's defensive errors that would have cost us. His silly errors cost us games against Catalans away when scoring and then completely fluffing it, he did the same against Saints as well at home just to name a few that I can remember off the top of my head. I for one hope he can sort them out because there's no doubt he's an exciting player going forward, but it tells you something when both coaches in Noble and Maguire don't see him as a regular first team player "at the moment".

For me, and I know the cherry and White report backs me up, Ainscough wasn't poor that day. You can't get any more fresh in the memory as those reports and he's down as having a good one.

Again I agree he's not without fault and I do think Roberts would have regained his place as Ainscough wouldn't have been great in every game after the wakey one but it's still can't be a dropped after scorring 4.

So your going by reports for that game? You didn't actually attend? Once Wakefield found the weakness in Ainscough's defence they took advantage which could have cost us the game on more than 1 occasion. At the moment we can't afford to still have Ainscough's defensive weaknesses because they are still there as Cas fans will tell you that have watched him. Those are the reasons why he was dropped after the Wakey game. He was still making the errors in the u21s last year after being dropped and is still doing the same this year at Cas. The sooner you realise that he is still making the same mistakes in defence since he was in the u18's the better because until he cleans them up he won't be getting back into the first team.

You conveniently ignore 2008 in your stats, though. After Sam's performance in the Haven game (yeah, I know it was only Haven, but he still got, and deserved, 5 tries and MoM), he should have got at least some games in 2008 - in fact he should have come in earlier, when Barrett was injured, but instead Noble tried just about everyone else at #6, including Mathers & Tom Coyle!

In 2009, given their respective forms, he should have been getting full games ahead of Smith, not sharing the #6 spot with him.

It's not as if he was too young in '08, either, he's the same age as Eastmond, who was playing for their first team then (including against us on Good Friday, IIRC), and he's a year older than Myler, who was holding the #7 shirt then and played every game.

Eastmond only played early for Saints though because of injuries otherwise he wouldn't have been brought in when he was. Saints had no other option but to bring him into the team when they did. He was then dropped when Long came back from injury, does that make Anderson a bad coach as well?

What happened to the likes of Tyrer, Bannister and Smith when they where meant to be the next best thing at Saints? Players came back from injury and those 3 now aren't at the club. The same is happening at Saints now with the likes of Ashurst, Dean and Wheeler. They are only there due to injuries. Kallum Watkins started his couple of games on fire, he was soon dropped though when Leeds came back to full strength. HTH.

No because Anderson had the option to play one of his senior players at #6 (Wilkin or Scully, for example) rather than bring in Eastmond. Noble, in contrast, preferred to play Mathers or Lockers there instead.

What about the other players I've mentioned? The likes of Bannister, Tyrer, Smith, Kallum Watkins. All meant to be the next best thing at Saints or Leeds, nowhere to be seen when the fully fit players came back. Those 3 players aren't even at Saints now.

Another question for you, who started at the season of 2009 for Wigan? You'll find Sam was in the Wigan 17 either starting or on the bench more than Eastmond who couldn't get into the saints 17 unless there was an injury at Saints.

The same is happening now at Saints, players like Dean, Ashurst, Wheeler, Lomax etc... are only there due to injuries to other players. Once Saints are back to full strength these players wont be in the 17. Saints have no option but to play them because there squad isn't as big as ours.

edit: Nevermind. I can't read. I seem to remember we won both games that Mathers and Coyle played at 6 though.

I only used Eastmond as an example, my main point is comparing Madge's policy to that of Noble. At present, for example, we've had Prescott and/or O'Carroll keeping Feca out, and Goulding keeping Phelps out, when both are fit, and we have Fielden being rested. Noble never ever dropped a senior player unless forced.

True

Fielden isn't being rested, he's slightly injured. Nobody knows if Phelps is still injured or not but he did get injured, Carmonts still injured. The only one you have is Feka but it's clear to see that Feka isn't the same player he has been so deserves to be dropped. Let's see what happens when we have a fully fit squad again and see what happens to the likes of Goulding etc... If they are dropped will people still say Maguire has been harsh on dropping him like they did with Ainscough?

Phelps warmed up on good friday but didnt play, According to Fielden he isnt injured

:1t49mxhp

Where did I say that I didn't attend? Why would you suggest that if I never mentioned it? The match reports, imo, back up my thoughts from the game that day in that Ainscough wasn't poor and didn't deserve to be dropped.

:1t49mxhp

The match highlights are actually on you tube btw just type in Ainscough rugby.

I agree Ainscough is certainly at fault for one of Wakefield’s tries. The first one is debatable but the 2nd one isn't its defo Ainscough’s fault. As a side note two of Wakey's tries are from direct mistakes from Lockers and Richards as well. Are only mistakes from Ainscough the ones that could have cost us the match?

What I also noticed is that your right in Wakey target Ainscough. At one point Brough puts a massive bomb to his wing and Ainscough deals with it and makes some massive yards off the back of it as well. I’d love to see his clean breaks & meter stats for that game.



I don’t have to realise anything. It’s you that needs to take a step back and realise what I’m saying.

I guess ateod it's all about opinions. Mine and yours aren't far off on Ainscough. We both don't think he's good enough for Wigan at the moment. We both agree his defensive problems are a worry (although i think you might be over reacting on them) and we both agree Roberts and Richards are better.

The only difference is that i don't think he should have been dropped by Noble after the Wakey game. You thought it was justified i didn't.

Like I said, lets see what team Maguire picks when we have a fully fit squad again and who stays in the team and who doesn't.

Noble dropped Pat Richards.
next

He also dropped Amos Roberts who played against Salford reserves at Salford and not to mention Mathers playing a lot of reserve games as well as Tim Smith.

I dislike "Sculthorpe lite" as much as the next non wigan fan, but this doesnt sound like him at all. Maybe Kevin Browns dad was telling porkies?

Its a pointless exercise. Noble clearly hampered the careers of every single player you mention.



What? A Wigan player who respected and learned from Noble. Behave.

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Its a redundant argument in any case because Noble is doing well in Wrexham and we are clearly doing much better under the right man for the job. BUT anyone who thinks Noble did nothing but obstruct the development of the players and in 6 months Madge & Wane have righted every wrong and advance to their current level of performance is frankly stupid.

imo brown is a decent player , at the time we let him go his performances were very poor. he even got substituted in a reserve game. We cant keep every player we produce. It wasnt like losing an andy farrell was it.

The vid is just of the try in the set of six after the bomb, unless there's another one (I put it up incidentally - the bomb was absolutely massive). Ainy had a great game that day and didn't deserve to be dropped. Particularly not for Roberts. Ainy made nearly as many busts in that game as Amos made all season lol

I always thought brown was a good player with massive potential, but a combination of being at wigan at the wrong time (a young player starting in the first team with massive injury problems and poor coaching) and also an attitude of 'i'm a wigan 1st team player so I've made it' meant that he never fulfilled it at wigan.

Moving on at the time he did was probably the kick up his ar*e he needed to bring his ego down and make him realise he needed to work on his game. I would have preferred to send him on a year loan and get him back when wigan were a bit more stable.

I think he'll grow into a very good player - and he's got a good coach to help him develop - he would have done well at wigan now, but at the time it was probably best for brown that he moved on.