What last night has proven (again) is that there is no real reason to strive to win the regular season. A top four finish is sufficient (and Leeds are proving that even that is not necessary). What IS the point of the regular season then?

IL has recently been singing the praises of the playoff system. I can only presume, therefore, that his intention was to win the playoffs, yet his coach seems to have peaked the team in April, not October.

Wigan have been a poor team for the last month or so, last night was not a freak loss.

No worries Brett. I was always a huge fan of yours as a player....

PS Hugely disappointing last night. Wane took a big gamble on Murphy which ultimately backfired but we haven't been playing well for some time and I worried even if we had scraped past Leeds there was a nasty experience awaiting us at Old Trafford and I'd rather lose to Leeds in a semi than Wire or Saints at Old Trafford.

I was hugely sceptical about Wane's appointment and after one season, he has provided pros one week and cons the next. I am inclined to judge him on next year when the team will be more demonstrably "his" and he has the opportunity to prove he has learned from the inevitable errors he was always going to make in his first year. Some canny recruitment is still needed and we need to clue ourselves up on how to structure a challenge over a season. Noble, for his faults, was good at getting a lesser team to peak at the business end and in Union Wasps under Shaun Edwards and Warren Gatland were always ready for the play offs seeing league position as largely a means to an end. Finishing first is not that big an advantage under the current system, every year Leeds show the importance of your main players turning up for big games and having a grizzled, battle hardened pack

Absolutely spot on and something I have pointed out throughout the season.

What beggars belief is that if you and I can see it, why can't the Wigan coaching staff and the Chairman?

A lot of you are very quick at calling for Waynes head but he isn't the one on the field. Wigan have been very good this year but it's the same old pie tune, No trophy sack the coach. O'Loughlin for me was quiet again last night. Not the first time he has had a quiet important game. To not have two major players in your line up for such a high preasure match was a very hard task and Leeds knew it. They marked Finch out of the game and their defence was awesome. I personally don't think that your current pack it upto the task. That added to the fact that Leeds backs - from full back to scrum half - are probably the best young set in SL and were well drilled added to last nights defeat. I would give Mr Wayne another year and if nothing happens then get rid but it's his first year and I personally think he will come good. You can't really say that you have had a bad year , can you?

We haven't won anything and our approach to the season seems to have been to peak in April.

Next year looks bleak at the moment as we are going to be much weaker without some really good signings.

I think that counts as a pretty bad year.

I mean semi final.

Hey you had a bad game, two or three key pieces of the jigsaw missing, that makes a big difference. Leeds scored one break away try, other than that did they look like scoring, not really. You looked a little lost going forward,Mcalorum was a huge miss for you, but i thought you were unlucky.

Funny how so many of you are saying that you are now champions now when Warrington were not last season.

Im definately not. Im actually classing this season as trophyless.

Hilarious - and I'm a Cas fan so can't stand Leeds.

Exactly this. Mossop and Lima were woeful until about the 55th minute. Hock and Hansen were also lacking. Our forwards have got to step up.

Fact is that we got to two semis and were awful in 3 of the 4 halves played. And the mentality of getting to a semi is alright is not acceptable.

And so you should, no-one wants to finish top these days. Anyone that finishes top has either been lucky or incredibly stupid

Making the effort to finish top is not worth the reward. Better to float along, resting players, reducing intensity and finish 5th - then start the season

There have to be serious questions over Wane's ability to prepare the player's tactically and mentally for these big matches as there is a definite pattern emerging now.

However, the decision making (and lack of composure shown) by experienced playmakers last night was abject at times as it has been in so many key matches at the back end of the season. The problem is deeper than Wane.

It is, but Wane is part of it. I await tales of how pre-season training was the "most intense ever" and more futile 80-0 victories against Wakefield in May. The happy clappers on this board will lap it up (as will those posters on here who would rather win the hub cap than the title .....

)

I look at the players who have left this year, our squad next year and a shake my head.

IL needs to stop trying to run the club on the cheap and get the chequebook out.

Let's see.

Out

Tommy
Finch
Carmont
Fielden

A fair bit of Communist Cap money there I would have thought.


In

Blake......


But that's ok as we have our wonderful youngsters coming through, don't we Ian? We are also going into next year on the crest of a wave and not a massive drop off in form over the last month, aren't we Ian?

Enough said.

OUT:

Lima

Ooops!

As I have previously said 2 new props are a must, we cannot go into next season with much the same pack minus Lima and Fielden. A pack which, even with those 2 has fallen well short in the big games and needed stregthening regardless of these 2 staying or going. These 2 players need to be quality players too, not just Dudson, Flowers squad type bargain signings, and need to be starting enforcer props that can lay the foundations. Even with Blake and Smith (I realise he was here this season but I would presume he would take up more cap space next year) coming in we should have plenty of room to strengthen the team even with contract upgrades to the younger players.

Genuinely fear for next year - Tommy is a massive massive loss and without him and finch we will be even more reliant on sam for any creative genius!

Smith and Green as a half-back partnership is bargain basement lets be frank, and we really need a genuine W/c half in their imo with one of smith or green playing as a back up, otherwise we really will struggle.

At the moment, we're looking at lining up roughly as follows next season, which to me has all the writings of a mid table team;

1. Sam
2. Charnley
3. Goulding
4. Thornley
5. Richards
6. Smith
7. Green
8. Prescott
9. Micky Mac
10. Mossop
11. Hock
12. Hansen
13. O'Loughlin
--------------------
14. Dudson
15. Farrell
16. Tuson
17. Lauaki

19. Hughes
20. Flower
21. Gelling
22. Logan

Under 20s lads

For me that lacks serious strength in depth once you get anything beyond the starting 17 and even in the starting 17 we're nowhere near as strong as we've been in the front row, halves, or centres which have been vastly weakened since our title winning season in 2010.

Desperately need a W/c Centre / Half - Or a pretty decent FB to put sam back in the halves & Prop IMO - Leneghan needs to splash some cash but cant see it happening.

Even with raises for the young lads we must be a mile off the cap with what we've lost as another poster has put.

Really need to get the cheque book out or all the momentum from maguire will be lost and we're in for some nobbyesque seasons under Wane IMO!

Smith and Green are going to be an unkwown quantity as a combination and it will take time, something some Wigan fans arent too good at giving players, or coaches for that matter. They could give us things that we've been lacking, such as a kicking game and more organisation at half back. The trouble is we dont really know and wont know until next season.

Unless there are some significant changes to the salary cap no one, let alone Wigan, will be able to attract the kind of world class overseas imports that will be needed to plug the gaps left by the retiring players. We just happen to be particularly hard hit next year. The future has got to be with our home grown talent. We may struggle next year but at least we will be giving our youngsters some top level exposure. Some other teams will face the same problem in future years - Wire being a prime example. But I have a fear for our game if the salary cap remains at its present level anyway. We can already see that the NRL and the Aviva Premiership are looking admiringly at our young stars. It's all very well having a level playing field so that all teams can compete equally but we need to recognise that in Superleague we are not alone! Just out of interest who could Wigan sign who is both available and meets the criteria of world class? I know that I am moving about a bit here but our problem next year is a little more than just a parochial issue.

Last night we lost by a penalty with two minutes to go. Not that far off.
The first half was woeful.
Once Watkins scored, Leeds picked up the pace they didn't have in the opening ten or so. We did well to only concede that try. Their other points came courtesy of Silverwood as did the game decider, not from their great play.
The wheels started falling off way back when Tommy was injured and wasn't replaced. Powell was not fit and Mellor left at Widnes.
Wane then moved three players out of position in Finch, Lockers and Farrell to cover one missing man. It didn't work. The team lost form immediately and never recovered. The inability or unwillingness to replace Tommy was the start of our downfall and that is the coach's problem.
If we had won last night another perormance like that in the Final would see us hammered. If there is a consolation from last night's loss, that's it!

The only saving grace is that over the next couple of seasons the true NRL stars left within SL at other clubs will have left to go back to the NRL (Doggie Monaghan..etc) or retired, leaving ALL other clubs to scout the lower aussie leagues for project signings / rely on the best of their own homegrown players and scrap for cast-offs from other clubs.


The league will be diluted heavily over the next five years giving us a slight advantage due to the amount of youth we have at our disposal.

We have a good idea of the standard of these players in absolute terms. Relative to those of ours who are leaving and those of our main rivals and they aren't as good. It is that simple.

SW contradicts himself in team selections.

SO is not a 9 nor is he a 6 yet SW played him a 9, when TL was injured SO played at 6, he was average at best. Last night again he was played at 9 with Farrel at 13. It takes something away from the strucutre of the team, you could tell when the ball was moved wide it didn't look slick at all and missed SO as a link out wide.

The main issue here is he is playing SO a 9 because MM is suspended hence shuffling the team around, yet when Tomkins was injured he chose to pick Murphy from the U20's at full back and promote from within...he has played one SL game against Bradford to mind - terrible decision on reflection.

Personally I think Pat at Full Back and Thornley on the wing with either Smith or TL at 9 in a game of this magnitude woud have been better. If your going to 'shuffle' the team around then do it and be committed or if his philosphy is 'youth driven' then bring Logan Tomkins in as a specialist Hooker on the bench. I would avoid playing Gelling on the wing against Leeds as they exploited him in the CC semi with great effect.

I just think he contradicts himself with his coaching philosophy and tends to go through spells having bringing youth in and then you dont see them for a few games i.e. Crosby, Spencer, L Tomkins.

Either way Murphy dropped a vital bomb from which the winning penalty resulted, I hope this helps Murphy and his development rather than hinders his confidence.