The issue was that we're not a good enough side to be leaving one of our better players out however young he may be especially seeing that he was going to get the next 2 weeks off after that anyway!!!

He also had a rest week only 3-4 weeks before the Salford game against Hull Kr.

The word in bold shows you have totally missed the point of this thread.

Difference is at Saints they are replaced by players like Wellens, Long, Gilmour or Pryce and you've got plenty of strength in depth to not miss them.

Sadly Wigan needs Tomkins to play for the rest of the season to salvage anything from it and we can’t afford to rest him.

To be brutally honest fella, you're just Rochdale....!
At our club continuous failure just isn't an option.
Supporter power is a powerful tool, it has changed things before and it will change things again.

classic.....



Never a truer word said and I wouldn’t have it any other way. The day we start to accept defeats like the Celtic one is the day we truly stop becoming a big club.

Would you want to see him ruined by being overplayed in his first couple of years in a team that's failing anyway?

With Tomkins in the team:

Won: 9
Lost: 5

Without:

Won: 1
Lost: 5

It's clear the kid has an influence. Complete no-brainer to play him.

He had a rest 3 weeks ago against Hull KR and Noble knew he'd get a rest for the French test weekend and the following week when we have a blank weekend.

Nobody wants to see him overplayed and he does need the odd rest but he got 'dropped' for the Salford game not 'rested' because it was the easiest option for Noble.

Of course not but if he did play in the remaining 10 or 11 games this season it would hardly ruin his career would it. Lets face it making the CC final is a massive thing for this club and not making the top eight is not acceptable and honestly do you think not playing in two games makes that much difference?

I was all for at the start of the season Tomkins playing the 10 games BN said he would but that was before we found out how poor Piggy has been, how hit and miss Smith was going to be and how well Tomkins has done.

Next season we need a top half back and Tomkins needs to be handled correctly by swapping in and out with Mcilorum but for this season we need him sadly and we don’t have much more choice.

I've just had a chance to watch the highlights on the super league website, and I've NEVER witnessed such poor defense from a super league outfit. EVER!

We wouldn't have beaten an amature side today. We fell of tackles all over the show and just couldn't defend. It was painful to watch.

Yeah, but to be fair, that isn't happening now.

I don't know exactly what goes on behind the scenes at Wigan, but several aspects of the club which previously were a disaster are now running pretty well. Marketing, communications etc, being good examples.

Okay, that's not the only important thing. But I don't think you can really blame the chairman for dreadful team performances without some hard facts to back it up. I've never seen any evidence that there is interference in team matters from the top floor. Quite the contrary. One of the coaching staff said to me recently: "Nobby runs everything." Recruitment is apparently a joint-effort. Noble is never left out of it, which is something that happened more than once during the Lindsay / Robinson / Monie era (the signing of Andrew Farrar being a classic example).

One of the problems in the Vince Karalius days was that the club wouldn't spend any money. When John Bevan was in dispute with Warrington and they put him on the transfer list at £20,000 - an absolute steal, even in the mid-70s - Wigan decided it was too expensive. These days, while we might not be prepared to pay £250,000 + for players, we still spend right up to the salary cap. We don't skimp, and have got a sizeable squad as a result (most of whom, on paper at least, are better than average).

For me, one of the most worrying incidents in recent times was the bollocking that IL gave the players after the Huddersfield game last year. He got slagged off for it in some quarters, even though it apparently galvanised the team into reaching the GF semi, but my main concern was why was the head-coach not doing that? Are IL's bollockings more effective than Nobby's? Is he more committed to Wigan than Nobby?

That's the impression I get sometimes. An impression reinforced by Nobby's regular bleatings to the press, which seem to signify that his personal wrangle with the chairman is more important to him than the club's public profile.

But even if you don't like IL and can produce factual evidence as to why he's bad for Wigan, wanting him out is likely to be a futile exercise. He owns us. And even if he decides to sell, I can't see buyers queuing up during a recession. Big Dave would probably step back in, and God help us then.

I think there are 2 things going on here.


The first is the slow strangulation of the game by the CC. The reality is that it severly impacts the ability of teams to attract the top talent (from RU as well as retain it/attract it to RL), and manage non-performance within the team through an inability to drop players (and field a competitive team)

This holds true for ALL RL clubs, not just Wigan.


Therefore, this brings us onto point 2- what has happened to Wigan.

I have to agree with the poster who said that there is a lack of "togetherness" at Wigan. There was once a time players would give their right arms to pull on the C&W. Not anymore it would seem. In fact not for some time.

As DeanoG said, I criticised him at the start of the season for his calls to get rid of Nobby. If there was one coach in the UK who could stamp out this behaviour, I thought Nobby was that man. It appears that he isn't that man, as I am damm sure that attitude still exists.

Therefore I have come to the conclusion that unless we cut out this cancer of mediocrity within the club, it won't matter who coaches us, we can expect more of the same.

If a new coach can do that then fine. I am just worried that we will swap a very successful coach who cannot stop it for a less successful one who also cannot stop it.

That's probably the most sensible thing you've ever posted.

It's certainly the least confrontational, and on this occasion I have to agree with him. Though I also agree with the other poster, who said that Saints need to field their youngsters less than Wigan, because their first line is stronger.

Whilst I agree we were poor it's impossible to judge a game on 4 minutes of "highlights"

Or a coach on two years of lowlights?

I'm late to the party, but totally agree with Hogan.

It's so boring watching us play week-in, week-out. I realised against Warrington away, that if a team makes all their tackles against us we will lose as we have no invention to open up the line and create space for runners. Take out Sam T and Gaz Hock, the only two who have any air of magic about them and we are screwed. I go misty eyed at the thought of Barrett wearing the No. 6 jersey!

Was talking to my Dad during the game and we both agreed that [ievery[/i team in the league plays better rugby than us. No shape, no moves, no invention. All we do is hope for the best that something will come off in the game. Watching Quins blast KR away the night before by playing an absolutely perfect game of RL just made Saturday even worse. We define mediocre at the moment.

Cruncher
it wasn't my intention to blame the chairman solely for the state of the team, more to point out the need for "root and branch" reform. I don't know enough about him to be any more specific.
I do think he presides over a culture of mediocrity at the moment. Whether he finds it acceptable and whether he'll do anything about it only time will tell.

So are Gidley, Lyon, Barrett, Fielden (when you signed him), Webb, King, Rauhihi, Puletua, Menzies etc not top talent then?



See above.



The problem is simple. Your forwards aren't good/consistent enough. You spent all that money on Barrett, Riddell, Roberts, Smith, Feka, Pryce and Gleeson when what you really needed was at least two decent prop forwards to help out Fielden, Hock and O'Loughlin. Basically, you haven't scratched were it itches!!!!

That is exactly the same for me. Used to be really excited on friday dinnertime leaving work, getiing ready for the match in the evening. Now I just look forward to watching all the NRL games, and basically go through the motions of watching SL out of habit

Not those 2 anyway!

More to the subject I have stood by Noble throughout his tenure but now I am starting to think maybe he has lost the dressing room and in that case maybe it's time to go. There are 2 options

1- He goes now so that Kearney can be flown over straight away and start coaching the team when they come back from their jollies with Vievers, Forshaw going too and Hampson appointed as conditioner, Farrell offered assistant coach if he knocks us back offer it to Wane. We would also benefit with having Hanley involved somehow. If Farrell was given the assistant coaches role I would want him running on the pitch giving out instruction. If not then Hanley doing it.

If we did this we would see an immediate turnaround and maybe go on a winning run and win the cup with a decent play off run. Consistency, pride, passion and desire to win would be required and the appointed staff would instill that.

Add to that we would stand a good chance of signing currnet NZ players so a prop e.g. Adam Blair / Sam Rapira could be on the cards as would a halfback / stand off also the players eligible for NZ would improve ten fold. I know some players refuse to sign for teams due to the coach of that team and with Kearney workiing under Bennett and Bellamy I think he would be the most viable option mid season without paying a transfer fee.

2- We carry on as we are untill the end of the season with Noble offered a 1 year deal if we get to Wembley but if players want rid of Noble would they want to win him a contract? I think not.


Option 1 is looking rather tempting I'm sorry to say.
The worm has turned.

I have to agree also although I still support our current coach till he goes which IMO he will soon enough.

I just don't understand how player's attitudes can be bad. If you walk out on training or back chat you should be disciplined. If i walked out of work or chatted back i get disciplined it is a job at the end of the day.

Noble is the players boss what he says goes. IL is Noble and the player's boss and what he says goes. If any player is disruptive and walks out on training or anything like that they should be disciplined. It's a job, they are not fulfilling a contract. If you don't like it F*ck off.

Lots of fans would give anything to player for Wigan (not because its Wigan but because its the home town club). Yet performances we see are awful and need to be acted upon. Not with harder training, IL should write it into contracts poor effort and enthusiasm towards their job puts them in a position to be disciplined either with reduction in pay or a strike system, 3 strikes and your contract becomes null and void. Fed up of seeing and hearing about bad performances not due to lack of talent or skill due to not giving a toss.

People say Karl Pryce has bags of talent yet no effort. If he doesn't want to be hear sack him. Lets start taking a stance. Any players who are bad mouthing the club and causing disruption should be sacked.


I'd rather see a team of players who want to be hear and have a positive attitude towards this the club and sport i love but do not perform not so well But they will once they train harder and they will as they love the club and want to succeed.

I agree, but as highlighted earlier, the CC effectively prevents you from doing this, or at the very least makes the consequences of doing so much harder to bear.