Without question. They're a win against Catalans or Widnes away from being in the same position as the other teams in the top four.

They're the team to beat IMO which sums up this crazy format we play under perfectly when you consider they're 6th!!

After reading through the Leeds forum this morning the first bit of sense comes on the Wigan forum, who would have thought that?!



Leeds' next fixture is dead rubber, McDermott should rest almost everybody. A win against Widnes/Catalan and we will be very well set for an assault against the top 4 with a fully fit squad. We will arguably be in a better position than our 2 GF wins from 5th.

And when you look at the fixtures the other teams in the top 6 will be coming off the back of, it would be silly to rule Leeds out as they should be the fresher team. Wigan and Wire play each other, Saints and Hudds play each other and Cas have to travel to France, all knowing they can finish in various positions between 1-5. Leeds know win, lose or draw against Hull FC on Friday, they'll be sixth and at home in week 1 of the playoffs. No disrespect to either Widnes or Cats, but you would expect a Leeds win in week 1, particularly at home, then they have to travel to a team who's lost an "on paper" much tougher game. It's an obvious failure with the system, but to rule Leeds out now is very premature.

they are certainly in the better position on paper (Leeds) but I think they looked really jaded in the second half against us last week so I doubt a weeks' rest for most of the first teamers will do them much good now, either physically or mentally. they are of course the team who perennially prove their doubters wrong however so all is yet to be seen I suppose.

can't see them even making the GF though myself.

That was more than likely the Challenge Cup hangover finally kicking in. They've had two tough games following the final (and played the majority of one of those a man down) so it was a good time to play them. It was a close, tight game up until Flower went over an could easily have gone either way if they had quickly scored again after Sutcliffe's try/Charnley's gift (delete as applicable).

which makes a further mockery of the present system and it doesn't help that teams are playing at different times and on different days. Not saying they will, but anyone could try to manipulate the results to their advantage.

for instance...would you fancy playing a pretty fresh Leeds away, or a beat up Wigan/wire/cas/hudds away? I predict both Widnes and Catalan lose this weekend, with neither fancying a trip to Leeds

If we beat Warrington and Huddersfield beat Saints who would you want to win between Catalan and Castleford? If Catalan win Saints win the hub cap and we finish 2nd with a home tie against Huddersfield. If Castleford win Saints are deprived of the hub cap and we finish 3rd with an away tie against Saints.

He's over-exaggerating a little, but you know full well you're out in the first week of the playoffs.

Cas to win, deny [ithem[/i their silverware for the season and I can get to Langtree Park for a game this season, as I had to miss GF.

Saints have been lucky that they had a lot of points before the injuries kicked in.
They have square pegs in round holes, lost another player to their huge injury list.

If you draw them in the playoffs I can't see many Wigan fans worrying too much.

They go into the season with one main halfback, then bemoan their luck when he get's injured and they have no recognised halfback.

Lance Hohiha has pretty much put them in that position. He was brought in on a four year deal to play halfback (and I presume on good money) which seemed a strange decision at the time. He has proven that there was a reason he hadn't been a regular half for a number of years and left Saints trying to scrape together enough cap space to spend on another halfback whilst not effecting the rest of the squad.

From a club that did some unbelievable business over the years they've really lost the plot these past few seasons.

At one point everything they touched turned to gold. Even poor players would slot in seamlessly and actually become good players in their team. Now everything they touch turns to sh*t.

They signed LMS as well.

And yet a quick glance at the table confirms that St Helens are indeed top of the pile. They have had a better season than Wigan and Warrington - FACT. They have beaten Wigan away (FACT)which no-one mentions, preferring instead to talk only about Good Friday. They have beaten Leeds twice (FACT). For a club in crisis they have performed better than everyone else bar Leeds who won the Challenge Cup and Cas who have exceeded everyone's expectations.

Consider the plight of Hull FC and Catalan Dragons. If Saints had had such a mediocre season - from teams who really should do better - then I could understand.

Anyone who writes Saints off on the basis of the 27 regular rounds is a fool. OK - they haven't convinced anyone that they can be dominant and they have a lot of injuries that they haven't coped very well with, but surely coming top of everyone else means that their season isn't a write off just yet?

I think the last 3 seasons have shown us that the league table doesn't necessarily show who is the best side. Wigan could have walked the league leaders last year but Wane knew keeping players fresh was more important.

Saints have only played 26 rounds (FACT). Let's see where they finish after the full 27 rounds. Winning specific games throughout the season wins you nothing and trying to draw conclusions from those results can be misleading because other clubs have had injuries, dips in form, players sent off, playing the week after the cup final and resting players etc.

For me a better barometer is assessing form over the season and where clubs are at going into the play offs rather than focusing on league positions. We know from experience that finishing top is no longer a good barometer of who will win the GF. For example, Leeds have won it from 5th and Wigan won it from 4th last year. Saints had a good start to the year in terms of form and points but after those first 9 games their form has been very indifferent. Leeds have had recent poor form as have Wigan although Wigan showed last week that they are perhaps focusing on the business end again. Warrington, Castleford and Huddersfield are the teams in the top 6 who have had the best form over the second half of the season. However, these are all just indicators but what matters is what happens in the play-offs and it will all unfold over the next month. I summary I don't think any team should be written off yet!

A Saints squad at full strength is a good side indeed but they're not and won't be. All their existing injured players are cooked with none expected to return this season, meaning they can only get worse not better.

They may win/knock teams out in the playoffs but not enough for a GF win.

Regular season results mean nothing. FACT.

I wouldn’t go that far as to say they mean nothing and that’s a fact. If it was accepted as an absolute fact no one would go to the weekly rounds at all, let’s not get too carried away.

They obviously don't mean 'nothing' but under the current system the weekly rounds are about just doing enough. You don't need to play your best rugby for 27 rounds as long as you peak for 3 games at the end of the season. Compare our 2012 to 2013, we were awesome for most of 2012, only lost 6 games and won the league leaders, yet two poor performances in the semi finals, both against Leeds who finished 5th, meant overall the season was a disappointment. In 2013 we established ourselves in the top 4, took our foot off the gas, eventually losing 10 games and finishing 4th, yet we won both major trophies so overall the season was successful. It's an obvious failure of the system when consistency is so blatantly unrewarded.

I was returning the favour of his awful posting style (FACT). He's rabbiting on about how saints have done this and that during the regular season. Saints beat leeds 3 from 4 in 2008. They lost the 5th in the grand final. FACT. Saints beat leeds twice during 2009, they lost the grand final. FACT. Saints beat leeds 2 from 2 in 2011....you get the picture. My point was regular season head to heads are not much of a barometer for the playoffs, so essentially his FACTS are meaningless.

FACT.

Oh dear. You seem to be confusing facts with your opinion

People have been offering the view that Saints are a write off and that all Wigan need to do is turn up. Saints beat us in the home game with essentially the same team they have now as Walsh went off injured early on

To argue that regular season form is meaningless is bonkers. There are essentially six teams with similar win/loss records and therefore six teams with a chance of winning at OT. No team has played well enough to be considered favourites.

In my view, and this is ONLY an opinion, the standard in Super League has slipped alarmingly since we won it in 2010. No team is dominant any more.

How anyone can have confidence in Wigan after the performances at Bradford, Wakefield, HullKR and Widnes is beyond me.

I would suggest Bradford and London would think otherwise.

Are you a saints fan masquerading as a wigan fan?