Nothing else needs to be said.

And while were at it, the rugby world cup should incorporate the word union into it's title just the like the the title of are competition uses the the word league. The word Rugby for me no longer describes either sport without the use of either union or league at the end, because after all we are two different sports.

He says nothing that isn't true really.

Was there any need to mention the RUWC in the press conference? NO!
Will they sell out to Sky instead of go to a terrestrial channel to help promote broaden the game? UNLIKELY I would say, but what would probably happen is games are relegated to BBC4 or ITV2 anyway?

Also surely any publicity is good publicity?

I thought the same. In fact this thread proves his point to a degree, he says we need to grow up, so we call him an 4rsehole. Very grown up.

I don't know why we can't just focus on our own teams, our own sport and address Union only when they come sniffing after our players and leave the Latics cr4p that gets on here out altogether.

As for the World Cup, I thought the way the last one was organised as a tournament was 5hite. Best three/four teams in one group and everyone else lumped together. Why not have a few 100 point games if it means that the emerging nations get to play the best teams, it may be the only chance they ever get. The Challenge Cup has the potential to throw amateurs in with the big boys why shouldn't the World Cup.

The sooner RL as a whole stops looking around at what everyone else is doing at concentrates on getting its own house in order the better.

We had the original 'Rugby World Cup' but the RFU took the initiative and copyrighted the term for themselves

Once again its men against boys when it comes to the administration of the 2 codes, we put an advert in the rugby league express for our administrators Union bring the top men in from around the world.

The comment by Spence was not required and pathetic, even if it is his belief which is a belief i share it is very amateur of him to bring it up in such a press conference.

The League World Cup is not in the same class as a Union, Football or Olympics it is light years behind when it comes to the money involved and the marketing side of things.

Sadly we continue to claim we have a stronger on field product which i am not in truth sure we do given the last world cup, and also claim we have superior athletes again which i am not sure we we certainly do not outside of the NRL.

In my opinion the 2013 World Cup has a 70% chance of destroying the credibility of the game beyond saving in this country and a 30% chance of finally being a launchpad for the game.

We MUST go terrestrial agreeing the package games to be screened and highlights show to get maximum exposure, we have to attempt to market it in conjunction with a terrestrial tv company to catch the imagination of those outside of the heartlands, it must be an event rather than a competition.

Sadly though due to the muppets at Red Hall I fully expect a build up of 1 z list celebrity, from the 60's, along with the token captains of each team rights sold to sky so it gets 5 minutes coverage on Sky Sports News, followed by a series of half full grounds England failing and enough ammo from the Union media to destroy our game for good.

I appreciate the NRL will never go for it but i would also like to see the comp be played in the Summer months rather than trying to highlight the skills of TGG on damp wet cold fields in the middle of the winter at Post Office Road. The Sunshine can make even the drabbest events an occasion .

That would be one of the best things that could happen to the competition although we all know the NRL wouldn't go for it, this world cup can work but a lot of time and effort has to be put in. Just as an example the RFU have already announced where the games will be played for there world cup yet were a year ahead of them and nothings even been hinted at where are games will be.

100% correct.

I agree with Jonh and am off for a lie down

I agree with you

As far as I know the word isnt copyrighted and is one of the main things we should market our WC as....Why to they have more of a right to the term....use the rugby world cup....captialise on their marketing for free and cause some confusion with 90% of the population who dont know the difference. Then come 2015 how many will be saying ' How come this rugby world cup isnt as good as the one in 2013?!?!' Then we can tell them the reason why



If RU want to diferenciate themselfs let them use the term Rugby UNION WC and let them look like the secondary sport for once!! We have as much if not more right to use it than them!

Cracking post mate. and 99% true apart from the bit in bold



WTF you spoiled it a bit there!!

Thats what annoys me about our great game though....the IDIOTS that run it and seemingly run our game into the ground. No foresight, imagination, or ambition, constantly playing the safe easiest option!!!

Red Hall needs a clear out IMO. RL would actually be far better run if we could find 10-20 reasonably educated passionate fans and threw them into the job....significantly so IMO....which shows you just how far behind we are to Union in those stakes.

The old adage rings truer now than it ever did.....League the game for Professionals run by Amateurs, and Union the game for Amateurs run by Professionals. Once the difference and still the difference. Until we rectify this we will continue to lose ground on RU.

Said as much as you the other night.....I hope Red Hall realise HOW important the 2013 WC is for us!! As far as I am concerned with the union WC so close we cant AFFORD not to perform and get it right. 2013 its make or break time for Rugby League IMO!

No matter what Red Hall do, the fans have to get behind it and go and watch the games, wherever they are. Red Hall isn't responsible for half-empty stadia, and if people see this on TV, then this gives a bad impression. 100% agree that a terrestrial broadcaster has to go for it - possibly Channel 4? Sky do a decent job, but if the game wants to grow then this is the only option. Oh, and we still need to convince the newspapers that we deserve decent coverage too!

We really don't need to get into arguments about the merits of each world cup. Our last one (if you discount england's dire performances) was pretty decent with competitive games and an excellent final played in front of a sell out crowd. At least we don't have games like Australia v Namibia which ends up 142-0. If that kind of thing happened in ours we would be called a laughing stock. And one final point, South Africa have won 2 union world cup finals and didn't score a try in either of them. Enough said.

Fantastic post.

Rugby union has overtaken rugby league by such a long way, its getting embarassing now. Even neutrals prefer to watch rugby union, intsead of "5 drives and a kick".

As for the athletes part. Spot on. There are NO athletes in english rugby league, even the backs are podgy beer swillers. Compare them to some of the english union backs, who are like antipodeans and its just embarassing. In fact, we could bang the aussie backline into the pack and they would make mincemeat out of our forwards. I would even say they would win the collision 9 times out of 10.

Where have the english monster props gone? Even our fearless leader Peacock is a chicken legged streak of pi$$. Graham, for all his endeavour is just a workhorse. Hes never going to break an aussie tackle. Oh for a McDermott, Skeret or Kevin Ward.

Jonh, you work in conditioning. Why cant we produce athletes like the aussies can? Is it something to do with genetic makeup? Are antipodeans different than caucasion? I honestly dont know. I mean it like in the sense that, and I dont want to sound racist, black people are made for sprinting, because of their body make up, short bones etc, giving more explosive power. Is this applicable to antipodeans too? Or are antipodeans just the same as caucasions. There must be a reason why.

I live in Reading and have gone to watch London Irish a couple of times. It is, on the whole, a dreadful standard.



Give over. Wardy is a legend but the likes of Peacock, Graham and Burgess are as good if not better than the likes of McDermott and Skerrett. How many Aussie tackles did they ever break?!

I am not involved in conditioning anymore but one of the reasons i got out was due to the frustration of the youth systems, which is again compounded by one of the biggest oldboys clubs going about.

We have the same genetic material as the Aussies, i personally believe genetics between Nations 99% of the time has nothing to do with it, it is our developmental systems that is letting us down.

If a lad is 15 years old 6'2'' he in this country by our mentality is a secondrow or a Prop, end of story (slighty simplistic but pretty much sums up the point).

We do not suit a player to his positioin on skill and development potential he is suited into a position by body type from the age of 6 up when they first lace a pair of boots.

Our methods of talent id and more importantly assessing athletic potential are non existant, we select players to come into the pro system on how good they are at rugby at the age of 13-16, i tried to implement scouting of athletes playing the game, skills can be taught athletic potential cannot, do not just look at the best players look beyond this some of the best players at jr level you can tell will never make it as they lack the development potential but they are bigger than there peers at that age and so are effective, these are usually the lads picked up by the clubs while the lad who may not have the best skills as a 13 year old but can run a 13 second 100m and has verticle jump of 70 cm is overlooked because it will take so much more effort to produce the end product.

Basically we will continue to look for the best players and continue to ignore them as an end product, while the Aussies look at the jr and there end product potential hence they pick up the likes of Inglis and Falou from under the noses of the Aussie Rules clubs they were playing for as jr's and the Idris from the athletics world as a top potential javelin thrower.

It is something i am very passionate about and it frustrates me no end that most clubs both amateur and pro are happy to typecast a player in a position from the age of 7, personally i would advocate holistic coaching of all skills to the age of 16 at the least but the lethargy of those controlling this process sadly means it will never happen.

Regards the conditioning of Union over League players I have to say it has become superior, they have more money recruit top coaches not ex players who did a 6 week NVQ to invest in there players. I think some fans are happy to hide behind ignorance and in denial, the pro game that union has become in most aspects (certainly all off the field) is lightyears ahead of league they overtook us in my opinion 2/3 years ago and have since raced into the lead while we continue to drag our feet while league has accepted mediocrity as standard. Sad but true in my opinion.

Good piece jonh and I do agree with most of it however just to clarify when you say union has excelled over league in the last 2/3 years in your opinion, I cant help but think you only mean Union in comparison to superleague and not the NRL. Because as far as I'm concerned the NRL is the greatest competition of either code, and also produces the greatest athletes of either code in the world, so do you mean union is leading the way but only in comparison to superleague?

I did indeed mean the comparisson to be between Union and SL, the NRL is lightyears ahead of any other code of rugby in the world, of that there is no doubt.

The proof of this is clearly evident in youth selection policies all over Wigan borough, for one. Lads who are big at 13 and get noticed because they can knock smaller lads down seem to get automatic service area selection (even if they don't trial for service area

). It doesn't make those who are selected particularly good RL players IMO, and doesn't mean they'll be anything at all when the smaller lads - who often have great skill and tenacity, which is overlooked - grow to be a similar size. The problem is that the smaller lads, who may pound for pound have a better attitude and be better all-round athletes may by then have lost interest.

Good post again Jon, thanks.

So if a 6"2 15 stone lad is earmarked as a forward, are you saying that his development, ie, diet, skills development and physical training are purely geared towards that of a forward? Do clubs never try and change them into backs?

More than Graham does. He was made to look like a random in the world cup. The aussies, New Zealanders and even the PNG forwards made him look ordinary. Yes hes game. Yes he does a ton of work, but he lacks that bit extra against world class forwards. Hes never going to get you on the front foot like someone like Morley would. Peacock has the "odd" decent game against the aussies, but again, consistently isnt a threat to their forwards because they out muscle him and win the collision in defense.

Maybe the examples I gave of players, werent the best, but what i was alluding to is we need Forwards on a par with the aussies if we are to compete. Much was made, pre world cup about how this was the best english pack for years and how it would match the aussies, when in reality, what happened was they were dominated to such an extent they looked like rank amatuers.

Im not even going to touch on the backs anymore because as it stands, we are never going to be able to compete with theirs bar some sort of miracle. I would say the aussies could field 4-5 backlines that would be as good as ours. Hell even a toyota cup backline wouldnt look out of place.

Dont our youth national teams beat the Ozzies when they play?

I personally have never seen this quality of player that is far superior to anything in super league when watching RU.

If anything the standards of the average RU are quite frankly disgraceful for professional players in this day and age.

Simple tackling and passing dont seem to be natural to them in the majority.

We have won a few series of late as have they, but we simply do not transfer these players through to top internationals like the Aussies do which highlights the failures in the system.

The tackling in rugby union is very good hence the reason they have to resort to kicking to win, it also takes usually decent skill for a back to score due to the extra men forwards tries while usually dull as dishwater to rely on power and grinding down the opposition. Its not my cup of tee at all but i can see that the skills are different to our but at least on a par which they certainly were not 5 years ago.

They have embraced professionalism, while we have simply bought into our own hype and stagnated due to our restrictive rules and lack of ambition.

Peacock vs Petro or Price is a no brainer as in who is better really isn’t it.

I also agree when you look at the likes of Graham, Sinfield, Hock, Lockers, Roby or Westwood they aren’t the greatest players we’ve ever produced are they! Yes they are good players but not on par with what we had a few seasons ago imo;

Fielden (ignore current form he really was a beast back in the day)
Cunningham
Morley
Peacock
Farrell
Sculthorpe

Bench=
Anderson
Newton
McDermot
O’Connor

When you think that starting pack wasn’t even good enough u can see how little chance the current incumbents have. The pack I’ve named above imo is the closest we’ve had to anything looking like a true world class pack in a good long while. Some of the players there were truly top tier of the game players like Scully, Faz & Cunningham and others like Morley, Peacock, Fielden and Newton were as good as their Aussie counter parts like Crocker etc.

Standards have slipped alarmingly over the last 4-5 seasons. The Soopah Doopah League structures just aren't producing enough world class players.