it surely has to be connected to the coaching?

I thought that Bateman was fantastic for you last night,if he full-fills his undoubted potential he could be a superstar

Made 34 tackles 2nd highest in the game.

I was impressed with Patrick last night. He threw himself about in the tackle and put some good hits on.

It's a weird game really because I was impressed with many individuals yet as a team we lost the plot.

I'm looking forward to us making a few opposition fans look a little silly because we will. I've read all sorts of trash being thrown at us after last night but we should really take it as a complement.

Wane has said he sems him playing Prop for us and he's trained him up with this in mind.

When Charnley went off he was forced to play back row and he didnt really know any of our structures. So he wasnt really great or influential but thats understandable given the scenario.

We played reasonably well in the first half to get to 16-0 up. Widnes weren't going to be pushovers but the players proved in that opening period exactly what they are capable of. It's not the first time that a Wigan side has appeared to lose concentration at a time when they should be trying to reach a point where they are comfortable.

There were some good performances to be found in there. Sutton did very well, Bateman looked strong and Tautai caused problems and will be a really good player with a bit more match fitness. George Williams also did well given the circumstances. He showed some good touches and also an exceptional one with his offload. Late in the game he also seemed to be the only player with the right idea - trying to take the line on and be more direct.

The way the team played in the second half was just unfathomable. They just kept going from one side of the field to the other with little in the way of hard work. not the first time it's happened either. The play was nowhere near direct enough. The Widnes forwards would have been delighted. I can understand the temptation to try to make a man advantage count by looking for an overlap but even those with only the slightest knowledge of the game will realise that the best way to do that is to draw the forwards in down the middle. There was very little of that and as a result the Widnes forwards were nowhere near as tired as they should have been.

The absolute worst part of the game was conceding a try from an overlap despite a man advantage. You'd be appalled at that if you were coaching juniors. There wasn't much threat from the blind side, there was plenty of space out to the right and somehow our defence was caught a man short. I thought Stefan Marsh's tackle attempt on Joel Tomkins was as bad as it gets in terms of defence but I was proven wrong.

If we're going to win any trophies this year we're going to need a lot from our halves. We've got many choices at 6, but the one constant will almost certainly be Smith. He needs to step up this year and prove that the reputation he's building for himself is justified. Green did an awful lot of work that went unnoticed, or perhaps it was more a case of what he did was just like clockwork that it started to be taken for granted. Smith needs to be a leader and take charge and be a dominant voice. Hopefully that will happen over the course of the season. We can't afford to have too much pressure on Williams (or Powell, or Hampshire if they get their chance).

It was a very strange performance from us because as a team we lost the plot yet some individual performances were hugely positive.

I thought Gelling looked like he'll kick on, Joel looks like he's offering that threat he did pre Union(although he needs to give his head a wobble), Logan Tomkins looked sharp, Tautai will be a player for us, Bateman was exceptional, Patrick and Clubb put themselves about in defence and I thought the two youngsters in Williams and Sutton both looked like they belonged in the side.

I say all that yet as a team we weren't composed enough and got sucked in to a scrappy game littered with petulant arguments and silly penalties. I blame the old heads to be honest like Lockers, Bowen, Smith and Joel. They should have gripped hold of that game but as the situation was unfolding and Widnes were scoring I saw very little chatter behind the sticks and even less composure in their play.

I'm happy though. I think the team has masses of potential and we'll get it right next week.

Spot on NK.
Think we will have a roller coaster of a season just didn't expect it to start at Widnes!

I kinda agree, but that is putting the most positive gloss possible on it. Certainly if we want to get anything out of the game against the Giants we'll need to do a lot better.

I feel a lot less worried about the Widnes game after watching Saints v Catalans last night.
Two teams who are expected to up there at the top by the end of the season, just like us.
Both were pretty poor in a stop start game with lengthy injuries and numerous mistakes taking any intensity out of the game.
It put Burgess's errors into perspective seeing Pelissior and Percival drop the ball on or over the line.
Both games looked like first games of the season and not too much to be read into either I suspect.

I wasn't worried after Thursday, our season isn't doomed, just like I wouldn't have thought we'd walk the league had we won by 50 points. It's one game, make a judgement after half a dozen games on where the team is and what does/doesn't need to be changed. Talk about knee jerk reactions, even for this board the reaction has been ridiculous.

Lack of discipline and lack of composure cost us a win in that game. We created a lot of the pressure on us through repeated penalties. Widnes kept their heads and were able to capitalise on our indiscipline. Well done to them. At 16-0 up we should have just controlled the game and claimed the win with sensible rugby, we didn't need to rack up points. As someone else alluded to though not for the first time we failed to close out a game and from a position of having a comfortable lead we let them back into the game. This is a problem we have had for a few years now we get three scores up and the team switches off and hey presto the opponents narrow the points gap. We don't always lose in such games but as a team it is a problem we have had for a while in that we seemingly cannot control and shut down a game when in a winning position and we often make it much more difficult than it needs to be.

As for Farrell IMO he hasn't really got that much worse than he always was discipline wise. Stupid and needless penalties, often on the 5th tackle, have been his trademark since he got into the team. It's just that now with Dudson and Hughes who were the other main (stupid) penalty machines no longer here those given away by Farrell are just more obvious as they don't get mixed up in the crowd as it were.

Lack of discipline and composure by the players,maybe but a lot of the fans on here are very guilty of that.give them a chance it's the first game,it will get better.

wow. Your hollow success from last season really bothers you doesn't it.

I think it was interesting noting Wane's comments about changing our style of play before the start of the season, I thought this would be something to do with limiting the use of dummy runners as we were having tries disallowed to obstruction. I noticed we were playing flatter and playing off offloads more than I've seen in a long time, I think it might take the team time to adjust. I also noticed Williams was also offloading, maybe him being slightly bigger with the ability to offload is why he's chosen over Hampshire, Williams and Hampshire play the game differently, perhaps Williams' strengths are more appealing to the way Wane wants the team to play.

I think in the first half this worked with more breaks down the middle rather than spinning it out-wide linking in the FB.

I thought O'Loughlin & Logan Tomkins bossed the game and when they both tired the others went to sleep also with nobody taking charge of organisation in the last quarter.
Losing Bateman from the middle channels was a huge blow.
Two dropped balls from Burgess hurt us badly.
Cut out the errors and don't respond to the niggling tactics of the opposition and we could win the lot this season.

We do seem to be offloading the ball in the tackle more. What I would like to see is the fullback or halfback following up more down the middle. We need to get away from the round the back / out wide ball to the fullback as the major threat. Teams are aware of it although when it's done properly (with speed and accuracy) it's very difficult to defend against. By supporting the offload in the middle a la Edwards the likes of Hampshire, Bowen, Williams and Sarginson can do a lot af damage with their pace. I'm led to believe that Larne Patrick is the quickest player over 20 - 30 metres at Wigan so he could also be used in that supporting role.

We should have won from 16-0 but there is quite a bit of over-reaction going on. Let's not forget we had second rowers at both centres, a centre on the wing, no McIlorum and eventually no Lockers either for the last period. Add to that we have a new halfback partnership settling in and our two best props still to come into the team. The sky isn't falling in. There were some good individual performances as well:

FB 1 Bowen - 4/10, he did his job defensively for the most part but was at fault fora try and should have sent us in for another but threw a forward pass
RW 2 Charnley - he looked pretty good in his 25 mins but it's hard to judge a winger on such a short period
RC 3 Gelling - 6/10, really dangerous in attack, got through loads of work too, this would have been a lot more but he made a couple of errors at key points which is a running issue for him
LC 11 Joel - 5/10, he went quiet after scoring and that tackle after their try could have earned him a yellow
LW 5 Burgess - 2/10, I don't believe it has anything to do with him leaving at the end of the year but he did have a mare. If he takes those passes, or stays switched on after dropping the one that led to a try, and we win IMO. Would have been a lower rating but he did a cracking job chasing down a Widnes break early on
SO 6 Williams - 6/10, he did some good stuff in the first half then went missing in the second. Should have made the tackle to stop the first Widnes try. Having said that he made about 30 tackles
SH 7 Smith - 3/10, he should have been the one to take the game by the scruff of the neck and put them away after we got to 16-0. Instead he went missing until his petulance at the end which got him binned. On the plus side 3/4 conversions helped us draw at least
P 8 Crosby - 5/10, if Mossop is back next week I would drop him to be honest. Didn't win the collision or get through much work, missed a few tackles too.
H 23 Logan - 7/10, I was worried when I saw McIlorum was out but I really thought he did a good job in attack and defence, earned a spot off the bench next week for me
P 28 Sutton - 9/10, brilliant game from any prop never mind a youngster. He was really terrorising them, has to be in next week even if Mossop is back
SR 14 Bateman - 8/10, ran some really good lines, always seems to be a real handful. Would have given him more but he bombed his first break throwing it on the floor
SR 12 L.Farrell - 4/10, he struggled and his head is going a lot atm. Bateman is ahead of him atm IMO
LF 13 O'Loughlin - 5/10, made some mistakes, generally looked rusty and didn' really manage to steady the ship. I think a Sinfield would have made sure we did the right things to win that game

S 17 Clubb - 7/10, looked really strong as usual, a very underrated prop
S 19 Powell - 4/10, anonymous. Would drop him next week with McIlorum returning. Even if he doesn't return I'd give Rocky a go
S 24 Tautai - 7/10, caused them lots of trouble, really hope he keeps this up its been a while since we have had an effective impact prop
S 25 Patrick - 6/10, thought he did alright, nothing outstanding but he got through plenty work

Sounds about right to me. I re-watched the 15 min version on Wigan TV yesterday, and, dammit, we scored some good tries (plus a few other very promising moves like the ones dropped by Burgess), albeit assisted by some pretty poor defence early doors from Widnes. So it's not like we showed nothing and were hopeless all match, far from it. I guess the disappointment is that our senior players either looked rusty and/or didn't have the influence they should have done. Matty Smith in particular has to bear responsibility for an anonymous and ill-disciplined second half, and as for JT, well, words fail me. But as Grimmy rightly points out, this was balanced to some extent by some cheering performances from some of the younger players/new recruits like Bateman, Sutton, and Tautai.

2010 was the last time we won our opening game and that was against the Crusaders, relax people

I agree with your sentiment but we won our opening game in 2013, hammering Salford 42-0

My bad, but we do have an awful "first up" record

Does make you wonder what we keep doing wrong year-in-year-out. We've lost more opening games than won for the last 10 years or so.
(and Giants will not in be a good mood on Friday after today's run-out either)

When Wane took over from Madge he said he was going to cut out performances like that v Widnes as he felt we lost too many winnable games. I know we didn't lose the game but its exactly the kind of performance he was on about. And there have been several such games ever since Wane has been in charge, notably one against Widnes a couple of seasons ago and one at home to a very poor Bradford side as examples.

I don't think some slow start syndrome cuts it as an excuse when the coach says he wants to eradicate performances like that. In the Widnes game he had a half time team talk to sort the tactics out v 12 men but you wouldn't have thought so given the way the team played.

To be honest I'm pretty sure all top teams still give up shock losses. It's good that Wane has those aims but I do struggle with his arrogance sometimes. Regardless of their respective trophy hauls I wouldn't put him level with Maguire.