England squad to face France: Kevin Brown (Widnes Vikings), George Burgess, Thomas Burgess (both South Sydney Rabbitohs), Daryl Clark (Warrington Wolves), Mike Cooper (Warrington Wolves/St George-Illwarra Dragons), Liam Farrell (Wigan Warriors), Luke Gale (Castleford Tigers), James Graham (Canterbury Bankstown Bulldogs), Ryan Hall (Leeds Rhinos), Josh Hodgson (Canberra Raiders), Jonny Lomax (St Helens), Jermaine McGillvary (Huddersfield Giants), Mark Percival (St Helens), Stefan Ratchford (Warrington Wolves), Scott Taylor (Hull FC), Stevie Ward, Kallum Watkins (both Leeds Rhinos), Elliott Whitehead (Canberra Raiders), Gareth Widdop (St George Illawarra Dragons).

I'd love to see Brown and Gale given a go in the halves.

For the NZ game I wouldn't be against Widdop at fullback with Williams and Gale in the halves. I think that a pretty solid attacking trio.

Broadly agree except I would have given Shaul a go, he really impressed me in the passed few month of the year.

Also I would have Ferres at second row playing next to Watkins, as there combinations and understanding could prove vital.
I fear that Currie (like Farrell) will prove to skinny to play internationally at second row, though he could do a job at left centre

With the squad as it is, I would go with Lomax at fullback and at second row start Whitehead and Bateman with Ward off the bench (you guys might not rate him but there are very few guys in world RL with his ball skills who can make 40 tackles per game)

You can't seriously believe that Ferres and or Ward should be picked in front of a player that has just won the Harry Sunderland award in the Grand Final. I like Ward, but don't rate Ferres at all. How many games has Ward actually played this season?

If you look at their stats for this season Farrell comes out far better than either of those two players. Where is this 40 tackles a game from Ward? Ward is less than an inch taller than Farrell and only 2lbs heavier. As for this wonderful Watkins/Ferres combination, weren't Leeds the lowest try scorers in Superleague this season?

I agree Farrell has been better this year, but lets look at his international performances where he has consistently been bullied out the game compared to Ferres who has had big impact on games. If Farrell comes up against Martin Tapau or Sam Thainday he will get totally dominated and we will consistently loose the PTB on his side.
It is a matter of tactics, nothing to do with his performances this year.

Ward constantly made over 40 tackles last year and usually dominates the tackle when he does. He may not be much heavier than Farrell but neither is Bateman, yet I would argue both are clearly stronger than Farrell from the way they take the ball into contact and are both more aggressive in the tackle

The one negative against Ward is the amount of games he has played (as you mentioned) but this is why I would have him coming off the bench, possibly coming on at 13 and moving Sam Burgess to Prop when Graham or Hill go off. We will learn more about his fitness today as he will likely play 80 mins as Bennet has said he want to give the Wigan and Wire players a rest.
Oh and when Ward played next to Watkins last year Leeds were the top try scorers.

Farrell came up against Thaiday in the 2015 WCS and came up with about 150m, 40 tackles and a try.

He's played a few games for England but he's not had too many opportunities to test himself against Australia or New Zealand at international level. He's a better player then Ferres or Ward although I do agree Ferres has had a superb time in an England shirt.

If LandS is picking on last year and International performances then Watkins should be nowhere near International selection. His wingers got four passes in total in three games.

That isn't an international match so the game wasn't that intense and Farell may have been able to get outside and attack the centre or halfback, he won't be allowed to do that against Australia.When he played against NZ last year he was totally bullied out of the game.
I actually don't think he is better than Ward and definitely wouldn't swap them but I understand that Ward hasn't fully proved that yet for more than one season.

I think that is a bit harsh given the lack of ball and space the outside backs were given, if he just passed his winger the ball in a narrow channel against an international team they would have got bundled into touch.
However I agree that in game 3 last year he left his hands at home (although he did beat Whare 1 on 1 a couple of times)

Also if we were picking people based on last year then Williams and Widdop would be left at home

Faz is 100 per cent a better player at this stage, it's not even arguable. I see your point though, Ward clearly has talent and hopefully he can stay fit next year and we'll see if he's close led the gap on Farrell.

As for the main point, he should be nowhere near the England squad at the moment imo.

Pretty pointless arguing any point really when you'll have an answer for everything. Farrell is a fine player, a better player then Ward without question and has his Harry Sunderkand trophy sat on his mantle piece to back that up as well as inclusions in previous dream teams (when he played more then half a season).

If you go over to the England thread on the VT you'll see that I've praised Ward, Ferres and Hall and defended their inclusions in the squad so it's certainly be not being biased to suggest Faz is a better player then Ward. It isn't even close at the moment (but it probably will be one day).

I wouldn't lose a second's sleep if no Wigan players were picked.

No Farell, Feres or Ward. Navarette starts for France.

Good to see Navarette hammer James Graham in the first half and for scouse Jimmy to spit his dummy out pointing at him.

Mixed bag from Navarette overall. He looks very raw and he's been targeted in attack but he's shown some impressive aggression in defence.

Look I can see why you think farrell is better as he has been consistently good for a few seasons now, but I genuinely believe that a fully fit Ward (and he isn't fully fit atm) has more strings to his bow and I wouldn't swap them. Im not being blindly bias and would happily swap Ablett or Ferres for Bateman. Many Leeds fans believe that Ward should be made captain soon, although I appreciate you haven't seen as much of him as we have.

Btw, I actually didnt want Ward to be picked in the squad as I would rather he had a full preseason under his belt to get his body right and maybe even bulk up a bit more.

This is all irrelevant to the point I was making anyway, regardless of how good Farrell is in SL, he is too skinny to play second row internationally

Aside from the fact that Wards tiny for an international back rower I don't disagree with much of that.

I'm a fan. I actually backed him on your own board about 18 months back when he was taking a panning for being a lad who just defends. He reminds me a little of Sean O'Loughlin in the way he's come in to the first team with a big rep but it'll take time to find his feet. When he does though both Leeds and England will have a fine player on their hands (but for some he won't be flashy enough).

You might have misread some of the comments on our board, I ,like a lot of fans, think he IS 'flashy enough' but isn't been given the licence to play as much as he should. In the academy he was a 6/13 for most of the time.

As for him not being big enough internationally, you might be right but I think players like him and Bateman who aren't the biggest play the game with enough aggression to compensate, unlike say Currie or Farrell

This debate all looks irrelevant anyway because it looks like Ward is either not match fit or not in Bennets plans based on him not laying yesterday, whilst we also seem to be playing Cooper and the burgess twins as back rowers

I didn't mis-read them, he was getting lots of stick with a number of people saying they didn't know where his rep had come from. The comments were that he could defend but that he offered nothing in attack and that reminded me a lot of the stick that Lockers used to take when he first broke in.

You're probably right in that at that point he wasn't given enough of a licence to play but I think there's also an element of confidence. It must be hard as a young player with a huge reputation at academy level to come in and just play your natural game because you don't want to make mistakes. That confidence to play his way has come with games and a bit more experience. Sadly for him he's not played as many games as he would have liked due to injury. I really hope he can get a full season in next year and kick on because he could be a good player for England.

It's great that we will have so many back rowers to choose from in the future.

Currie
Bateman
Whitehead
Ward
Farrel
Hughes

All top players and nobody Can know how a player may progress and allow for dips in form.

I just feel that all round currie and Bateman would be my first choice second row if was available I think both are great going forward send also in defence both capable of keeping much bigger players quiet. But there's a very good argument for any combination of the above. Its been a very long time since there's been that kind of depth in quality were starting to build up internationally hughes has some catching up to do but there's plenty of time for that to happen

Just need to discover a few centres now!

With this current squad:

Lomax
McGil Watkins Sarg Hall
Williams Brown
Jammer Hodgson Hill
Faz Whithead
Sammy Boyle
-------------------
Tom/Taylor
George
Clark
Bateman

Are they supposed to announce a 19 for the NZ game today?

Quote ="Grimmy"Are they supposed to announce a 19 for the NZ game today?'" www.totalrl.com/england-make-fiv ... ns-opener/

Quote ="Grimmy"Are they supposed to announce a 19 for the NZ game today?'" www.totalrl.com/england-make-fiv ... ns-opener/

Surprised he's dropped Taylor and Percival. Looks like Sarge back at centre then.

Yeah Taylor went well in the France game, bias towards the guys who play against Aus/NZ week in week out in the NRL I suppose. I'd leave out Lomax (Sarge is proven at international level and his workrate will likely prove more useful that Lomax's flashy stuff. Bateman can then play centre, again, workrate and toughness over being flashy) and Gale (At least he's an unknown quantity, I've never seen Widdop do anything at international level). However, I suspect you are correct, with Gale and one of Farrell/Bateman probably missing out.

I think Cooper and one of Gale / Widdopmissing out.

Lomas at FB and Sarge centre.